When you think of the social impact sector, you probably imagine that it is a kinder, gentler place than the traditional corporate world. But surprisingly, it might actually face more systemic issues and challenges, causing people to leave that sector in high rates.
Maryann Kerr has spent many years working in the social impact sector, and during this time she has seen and experienced her fair share of bullying, unsafe workplaces, toxic work environments, and fatigue. She joins me on the podcast today to share more about these challenges, and gives solutions that leadership can use to engage senior leadership and create a more psychologically safe workplace culture within the sector.
Whether you are a leader in the social impact sector or the traditional corporate world, the way you treat your employees is a reflection of your values. It’s time to acknowledge and take ownership of the issues our employees are experiencing.
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About Maryann Kerr:
Maryann Kerr is Chief Happiness Officer, and CEO with the Medalist Group. Maryann has worked in the social profit sector for 34 years and helped raise over $110M for small to mid-sized organizations. She has led at the local, provincial, national and international level and is passionate about her family, feminism, and continuous learning.
As a governance, leadership and culture specialist, Maryann knows successful organizations create and nurture a climate where everyone understands their role; politics are minimal; engagement is high and turnover low. Environments where employees co-create the roadmap to mission delivery. Compassion, kindness, and a deep commitment to collaborative and productive workplaces are core to her work.
Maryann has participated on many social profit boards and committees and her first book Tarnished: Let’s rethink, reimagine and co-create a new social impact sector was published by Civil Sector Press in 2021. Maryann earned her master’s in organizational leadership.
Mentioned In This Episode:
- Tarnished by Maryann Kerr
- The Leadership Challenge by Barry Posner and James Kouzes
- Join the monthly digital subscription
- Follow Mental Health In Minutes on Facebook
Lindsay Recknell 0:07
Welcome to Mental Health in Minutes where we open the door to conversations about workplace mental health, and help leaders and HR professionals create safe and innovative organizations for our employees and our companies thrive. I am your host, Lindsay Recknell, the psychological health and safety advisor of workplace mental health consultant, speaker, facilitator and an expert in help.
Lindsay Recknell 0:27
Each episode of this show has three objectives, to discuss the future of mental health in the workplace. To identify the best, most successful strategies for opening the door to mental health conversations at work, and to share the top ways we can engage our leadership in the workplace mental health conversation, and have them endorse and pay for a positive culture shift within our organizations.
Lindsay Recknell 0:48
If you’re listening to this podcast, you know that our people need us more than ever, but most of our organizations have a long way to go until supporting employee wellness is embedded in the culture of our workplaces. This episode is a resource you can use to start and continue workplace mental health conversations, and my guests will share their experiences and what’s worked for them.
Lindsay Recknell 1:08
Today’s guest is Maryann Kerr, the chief happiness officer and CEO with the Medalist group. Maryann has worked in the social profit sector for 34 years and helped raise over $110 million for small to medium sized organizations diagnosed with ADHD at 59 years old. Maryann believes workplace trauma triggered the diagnosis of a condition she managed successfully for decades.
Lindsay Recknell 1:31
As a governance, leadership and culture specialist Maryann knows successful organizations create and nurture a climate where everyone understands their role, or politics are minimal. Engagement is high and turnover as low environments where employees co create the roadmap to mission delivery, compassion, kindness and a deep commitment to collaborative and productive workplaces are core to her work.
Lindsay Recknell 1:54
Maryann has participated on many social profit boards and committees and her first book tarnished, let’s rethink, reimagine and CO create a new social impact sector was published by civil sector press in 2021. I’m excited to get going. So let’s dig in.
Lindsay Recknell 2:11
Hello, Maryann, welcome to the show. I am so excited to have you here.
Maryann Kerr 2:15
Thank you, Lindsay. I’m thrilled to be here.
Lindsay Recknell 2:18
We have had the opportunity to talk a lot about your industry and your work and your mental health challenges yourself and how all of those things have come together at work. And I kind of preface you in the introduction gave us a formal version of who Marianne is. But I’d love to hear from you. Who you are, what you do, who you do it for?
Maryann Kerr 2:41
Sure. Oh, thank you. Well, I am an individual who’s worked in the social impact space for 30 plus years. So mostly doing organizational leadership and fundraising for all kinds of organizations. And I have a small boutique consulting firm called The Mentalist group. And for a long time, I did the same thing there. But some years ago, I shifted into the area of organizational health and well being of employees, leadership, development, team building culture, co-creation, and I love it. So that’s what I do.
Lindsay Recknell 3:17
Amazing. I also love it, we are well aligned on creating workplaces where employees can flourish. And that is, that is the whole point of, of this podcast is the whole point of this show is to open doors to conversations about mental health at work. Can you share a little bit about the culture that exists in the social impact sector specifically?
Lindsay Recknell 3:40
Because as I understand it is not a psychologically safe space in many cases. And yeah, can you talk a little bit about that?
Maryann Kerr 3:47
Sure. I would be happy to do that. I think, um, you know, like any sector, there are good organizations, and there are poor organizations. What is different about our sector is and I am always bashing on Amazon, because they’re just so easy to bash. But, you know, when when you see a news story about Amazon and mistreating of staff, racism, anything along those lines, you don’t, it’s Amazon, you sort of expected but in the social impact space, people come into this kind of work because, you know, they have a sense of wanting to mend the world in some way, shape or form. They tend to be highly empathetic people. They care a lot about a variety of issues.
Maryann Kerr 4:29
And so, what I have noticed and really experienced personally for kind of both, about 10 years of my career is a lot of bullying, a lot of harassment. We have ridiculously high numbers of women and and men but primarily women who are facing sexual harassment of all kinds. So it’s just it’s almost what I would call rudderless or leaderless In a lot of ways people get so focused on the mission and delivery of the mission, they forget that how we deliver, it really matters. There’s stuff that’s, that’s what I would say.
Maryann Kerr 5:11
So there’s a lot of workplaces where you have leaders who have no leadership skills at all, um, who have been promoted into those roles, because they were really great fundraisers, or they were tremendous program people or perhaps marketing folks. And they find themselves elevated into leadership roles, without the capacity to truly lead.
Lindsay Recknell 5:33
I don’t think that that’s limited to Jesse’s social impact factor sector. I definitely, you know, working in sort of traditional corporate environments, if we, you know, there’s, there’s a way to promote people either seniority, it’s, you know, its merit, it’s not necessarily just because they’re good at doing their job, doesn’t mean they’re going to make great managers are great leaders. And often we forget that GAAP, we forget to give that leadership training.
Maryann Kerr 6:01
Lindsay Recknell 6:01
Why do you think it exists so prolifically in the social impact sector? Or do you think it is greater? There? Maybe, I don’t know.
Maryann Kerr 6:14
You know, what I, it’s hard for me to say, because my experience has been so focused in the sector, but other people tell me who have worked in both the corporate sector, and the social impact space, that it is worse. And so we are seeing, you know, people leave the sector, you know, because they, they became thinking it was going to be something else. Right, they really believed that it was going to be a kinder, gentler place, because of the kind of work we do.
Maryann Kerr 6:39
I think that it does attract people on the one hand, who are really driven to make change, and who then perhaps, don’t worry so much about how that change is made. And it attracts empaths. And when those two meet, it can be a very, very difficult situation, right? Because for me as an empath, how we do the work really matters a lot, how we get how we get to addressing issues with talking about systemic pieces, looking at whole organizations, considering people as entire humans, right, not just, you know, you don’t leave your whole family at home when you walk through the office door or appear in a zoom call. Right.
Maryann Kerr 7:22
So I do, I do think it’s worse. I think part of it is because we don’t invest. So, you know, you would look at a lot of big corporations, and they have HR departments, they have professional development budgets, they are training their leaders, they even have leadership development programs to move people up within an organization. We rarely even have succession plans for our top tier of leaders. So I think it’s just an area that has really been lacking for a long time. And it’s time we paid attention to it.
Lindsay Recknell 7:56
Well, and you bring up an excellent point, because if I think about organized court and traditional corporate who have who put budget there, and because they are not necessarily beholden to the people that have given the funds to an organization in the social impact sector who are desiring those funds to all be channeled into the cause, whatever that awesome causes. How do you get around that?
Maryann Kerr 8:25
I love that question, Lindsay. I love it. I’m gonna say it was around 2002 1002. I was at a conference, in fact, and we were talking about this exact thing. And I was an executive director of a small organization, we raised under a million dollars a year we struggled every year to bring pull our budget together. And I talked about some of the things I did for my team.
Maryann Kerr 8:50
So for instance, you know, I gave them time off in the middle of the day, whenever they needed it, they needed to go do something I wasn’t counting the hours, like, say you want to go to the gym, you need to, you know, go ahead and do that. And, and if I could find a way to, to lead Lunch and Learns with the team, we would do that. And I was kind of giving all these ideas. And someone said, Well, I would never give to your organization because you know, you’re not getting the most out of my donation.
Maryann Kerr 9:18
And another fellow stood up at the back of the room and said, I’m only going to give to her organization, because I know that the way you treat your staff, right, is a reflection of the values of the organization and the work that you do. And I know that she’s getting way more out of her team than you’re getting out of yours. And it was a beautiful moment. Right? It was beautiful. And I believe that I’ve always believed it. So it’s a good use of donor dollars. It’s a tremendously good use of donor dollars.
Lindsay Recknell 9:48
Love it. I love that answer because it’s I couldn’t agree more donor dollars corporate dollars, whoever’s dollars supporting the people that work in your organization is only going to support your organization. You take care of them, they’ll take care of your company, they’ll serve your organization, they’ll take care of your cause. Because you can’t, you can’t pour from an empty cup. If you don’t have people working there, the cause isn’t going to get supported anyway.
Maryann Kerr 10:12
Exactly. And these are folks that are often suffering from compassion fatigue, right there on the front lines. In this particular case, it was a social and emotional support organization for folks that were living with a cancer diagnosis. And it was tough work, right? It was highly emotional. And they were really invested with the groups of people they were working with. So taking care of that team was the most impressed, I felt like was the most important thing I did.
Lindsay Recknell 10:38
Can we talk about compassion fatigue? That is language that I’m familiar with, but I bet a lot of listeners aren’t, aren’t so familiar with that concept?
Maryann Kerr 10:47
Yeah, well, I don’t know, all define it correctly, in terms of the academic world, but for me, it’s that you you are, you are literally quite tired of taking care of absolutely everybody else. And when you combine the kind of work that we do in our sector, with oh, I don’t know, global pandemic, and the the added kind of fatigue that comes from that, and racial unrest, and the fatigue that comes from that, I mean, all of that just kind of bears down on people, and you run out of steam.
Maryann Kerr 11:19
And if you’re not taking care of yourself, and you’re not watching, right to see how your teams are doing, and it’s hard, it’s, it’s hard now, because as leaders, we’re fatigued, so it’s harder to see the fatigue and others. But it’s, it’s really important that we do because that’s when mistakes happen. That’s when people get hurt. Right, that’s when people become ill. So we it’s about taking care of ourselves and other people.
Lindsay Recknell 11:47
That is a beautiful definition. It is exactly my understanding academic or otherwise, it’s, it’s my understanding. And also, you know, you combine the lovely humans that typically will choose to work in the social impact sector as well, the the impasse, like you mentioned, the people that are just wanting to change the world and make it a better place. You know, you combine all of those internal and external factors. And you create this cacophony, perhaps, of, you know, you really create an environment prone to compassion, fatigue, and, and, yeah, and these kinds of behaviors to show up.
Lindsay Recknell 12:24
And I know you’ve written a book all about this, about these topics, can you highlight for us some of the key concepts out of your book? And how people can learn from some of the things that you’re highlighting?
Maryann Kerr 12:37
Yeah, well, you know, I wrote the book, the publisher came to me and he said, you we have a big problem in the sector with, with turnover, people are leaving, they’re not lasting very long. He said, I keep hearing about, I keep hearing about toxic work environments, I don’t understand what that means. Tell me what that means. And so I said to him, you know, I don’t know when writing another book make a difference? And I don’t think we really answered or he was even able to answer until we were quite far into the book.
Maryann Kerr 13:07
And he kept saying, to me, remind yourself what you want someone to walk away with, when they read this book. And so I spent kind of the first four or five chapters defining what’s happening out there in the world of work in our sector. Some of the issues people are facing, I share some of my own story. In terms of the workplace bullying, I experienced, I was fired three times, each time from a job I loved each time walked out the door, each time absolutely horrific, and traumatic.
Maryann Kerr 13:40
And the final time was kind of the worst of them all. And I share some ways in which we might do better, and how we can do better and, and they aren’t even expensive things Wednesday, they’re things that an organization that has only enough money to buy the book can facilitate themselves.
Lindsay Recknell 14:01
So tell us what are some things that we can do to make the sector better? How’s that for a way?
Maryann Kerr 14:08
Excellent, well, well done. It’s like you do this, it’s like you do this for a living. So I kind of think there are three things there’s a need to focus on leadership, on governance, and on the co-creation of culture. So all of that requires that we spend some time developing ourselves internally, our internal leadership, our organizational leadership, and our sector leadership. So I spent a fair bit of time on that topic. Governance, because in a lot of ways, our governance system is really broken.
Maryann Kerr 14:42
But you know, this book is about here’s where we are today, and what can we do with what we’ve got today. I don’t see us necessarily throwing boards out. I think we’re going to live with this model for quite a while. So how can we develop boards that are paying attention to important things for a long time we told boards You know, there’s governance and there’s operations and never shall a to meet.
Maryann Kerr 15:04
This is a mistake, because you can’t govern if you don’t know what’s happening in an organization, or operationally, right. So if the staff are leaving in droves, if the staff are incredibly unhappy, that’s a sign that there’s something going on, and the board needs to be taking a look at that.
Maryann Kerr 15:21
And then finally, the co creation of culture, which really comes down to radically listening to the people in an organization, you know, I think we tried to complicate this idea so much about, and this will be my, my bias away from kind of an academic leaning and using those kinds, that kind of language, I want to just say, the folks who are closest to the issues, they know what they need, they know how to create the culture, that will be reflective of the values they believe are, you know, meant to be lived. And that comes from listening, that comes from listening and engaging, and valuing and respecting the employees in an organization.
Lindsay Recknell 16:11
Love it. So leadership, governance and co-creation. It’s, I mean, like you say, it feels so simple. But I know that it’s also very, very complicated. One of the things that we talk about on the show is how do we engage our senior leadership in these kinds of conversations to recognize what’s going on?
Lindsay Recknell 16:30
And he kind of mentioned that with the boards, you know, if they, if your board is unaware of what’s going on, on the front lines, how can they be expected to change it or to create systemic, mega, you know, systemic change and create mechanisms to support? Do you have any ideas on how to engage the board or other senior executive in these organizations to engage in conversations like this?
Maryann Kerr 16:55
Yeah. You know, it all starts I know, we talk a lot about human centered design and design thinking as it relates to anything, anything like this, my belief is that if you have an opportunity to speak with leaders, listen to leaders in an organization and recognize that they are actually the experts in their own experience. Right.
Maryann Kerr 17:19
So so a board that is asking good questions, that is measuring things like retention, that is asking if we’re doing, you know, in employee engagement surveys every couple of years. So from a board perspective, it’s asking the right questions. From a leadership team staff perspective, I think it’s about recognizing that they and the team are experts in the organization’s experience, and that they need to draw that out, listen, and engage and determine where to go next. Because I think we’re going to keep seeing people leave, I think we’re going to have a real kind of drought, in terms of, and we already do have a challenge in terms of finding leaders, because many are aging out of organizations and retiring.
Maryann Kerr 18:07
Thankfully, not as young as we used to be, but you know, they’re there, they’re ready to go. And there are not people to replace those leaders. And what’s happened is we bring folks in from the corporate sector, who don’t necessarily, you know, just to be I know, it’s hard to believe it, just because you ran a bank does not mean that you know how to run a charity. It’s a very, very different world. And so I think that we’re going to have some big challenges just when we’re needed the most.
Lindsay Recknell 18:36
That’s a very fascinating concept, because you would think of business as a business as a business. Can you share a little bit about the differences and where the misunderstanding might be in that case?
Maryann Kerr 18:49
I think it comes primarily, you know, as a sector, we have adopted a lot of what I will call corporate ways and business ways, because we did for a long time hear that we need to be more businesslike. And I don’t disagree with that. I mean, we need to have, you know, tight financials and we need to have, you know, the right staffing and large enough staffs to deliver the work and so on. But how decisions are made and, and how work is decided in an organization that is well run involves a community of stakeholders.
Maryann Kerr 19:25
That is, I’m not suggesting a collective so I’m not saying oh, you know, we all we all have an equal vote at the table. And eventually we’ll all come together and make a decision. It’s not that but the listening to voices, the voices of the community, you seek to serve, right, the voices of the donors, the voices of the staff, the voices of volunteers. It’s a very different stakeholder group, and it requires the kind of patience and empathy that I think is different than perhaps you have when you or being highly decisive in an organization that is that is that has shareholders that it’s at its right. And we have stakeholders. So shareholders versus stakeholders is probably the root of it, the heart of it.
Lindsay Recknell 20:12
Yes. What a great perspective, I didn’t really I didn’t consider that at all. That you didn’t you had, you do have a different set of people that you have, that you’re impacting. And you probably have more voices at the table, in fact, in a social impact, as opposed to an organization where it’s either the board the CEO, or the shareholders that make all the decisions, right, you have more people who should have a voice at the table. I think that that’s very wise.
Maryann Kerr 20:43
And I think we’ve made a lot of mistakes as a sector because we did adapt sort of that corporate approach for quite a while. And we stopped, for instance, it was it, we stopped asking, and I don’t really love the language I’m about to use, but I don’t have new language for it yet. But when we say the community we seek to serve, so let’s say perhaps we are a shelter of violence against women shelter, you know, we need to be including the women, and then the families who are impacted by this violence in the decision making process.
Maryann Kerr 21:18
And that is, that is not something that you would necessarily see. I mean, you might say, in a company, they will ask their customers what they think. But it’s very different, right? Because it’s a relationship where you, you might say, Oh, well, you know what, I would like that to be bigger, brighter, bolder, bluer. Right. Whereas in this situation, you’re dealing with emotion, you’re dealing with compassion, you’re dealing with, you know, very human aspects of life. And so it’s a very different kind of ride, and it takes a certain skill set.
Lindsay Recknell 21:54
absolutely does. Where, where do people learn these skill sets? Is there like, you know, Leadership School for the social impact sector?
Maryann Kerr 22:04
You know, I think the way leadership training is going today. So I’m a big fan. Still, I am a big fan of a book called The Leadership Challenge by Jim Kouzes. And Barry Posner, I always get their names transposed, I think that’s correct. And, and, you know, they have dozens, I want to say, I 30 years, 40 years of research around what leadership looks like, and how leadership anywhere, anywhere, to lead anywhere, any kind of organization.
Maryann Kerr 22:35
And it’s a book, it’s a book you can buy and read, and interact with, through assessments and so on. It’s not expensive, and it’s not difficult to learn how to lead is actually, I want to pretend it’s so much more complex than it is Lindsay, but it’s not, you know, it’s modeling good behavior. It’s being empathetic. Right, it’s being decisive, but knowing how to get there. Right.
Maryann Kerr 23:03
So I think there’s so much very accessible leadership training. I provided lots of consultants like me provided, right, it’s, it’s accessible, it’s not expensive, and it doesn’t matter what kind of organization you need. It just matters that you spent some time learning to develop your internal leadership, your organizational leadership, and the sector’s leadership.
Lindsay Recknell 23:27
Love it. Absolutely. Well, we’ll find that book and link to it in the show notes so that people who are interested can reference it. I especially like that you can interact with it, I’d like that language that you use. Because if we don’t action, what we learn, we might as well just not learn it really.
Maryann Kerr 23:43
Right. And I so I do I run a session called everyone’s a leader. And it’s based on that book and their work. And I love it, because it really is about that sense of ownership around and not just about leading organizations. But you know, we lead lives, right? How do you lead on the homefront? How do you lead in your social group in your friend group, right? Leadership is something that we can all develop. I don’t believe you are born a born leader, you can learn to be a leader.
Lindsay Recknell 24:10
Yeah, I completely agree. Completely agree. Um, I’ve read a recent I think was HBr, Harvard Business Review article, and they were talking about how leaders are hesitant sometimes to ask their employees, their shareholders, the stakeholders, to ask for opinions, because then they’ll have to implement them. And if the systems and the governance and the structure of the organization don’t actually support them to easily implement and it feels hard, they just won’t they just won’t even ask because the thought of implementation will feel hard.
Lindsay Recknell 24:53
Does that resonate with you? And do you think that that exists, as well? Or what advice do you have for people who are thinking that way and have stopped asking?
Maryann Kerr 25:00
Yeah, I love that. I haven’t read that I’ll have to look it up. But, you know, change is hard. There’s no question that change is hard. However, um, my experience in consulting with organizations is that very often the asking was the important part, it was that people wanted to be heard, they wanted to be understood, they wanted to be seen, respected, valued, right, those those same old thing, they wanted to feel a sense of belonging with the organization.
Maryann Kerr 25:29
And, the thought was the most important part. And that in that process, if you can’t, if the result was what we actually want something now that seems impossible for an organization to implement, you’ve now started to develop the kinds of relationships with people where you can go back out and say, well, community of people, you know, this is only this is what is doable for us. But what would you like? How would you like to move forward? If you’re actually working in community? Everybody owns it, right?
Maryann Kerr 25:58
I’m not saying hey, Lanza, you need to do this, you need to fix this, you need to make sure this, right, I’m saying, Here’s what I think. And here’s what I’m willing to do to be part of that solution. Right? That’s another, I think, big difference about working in, in organizations in social impact organizations is that we have a sense of responsibility to the solutions, right? We’re not just saying somebody else, fix it, we’re willing to be part of it.
Lindsay Recknell 26:22
Yes, yes. And that ownership and that accountability, that we’re all here for the same objective, and we all get to take responsibility for solving these issues, whether it’s, you know, giving more to our cause, or serve, solving our internal struggles. I love that, that joint accountability between the organization leaders and the people doing the work. If there is one message that you could leave the audience with today, what would that be?
Maryann Kerr 26:52
You know, I think everyone should support social impact and charitable organizations. And I think in doing that, ask, find out what is happening with the staff know that the staffer are well treated before you decide to give there, because there are lots of organizations working in whatever cause is important to you. And we provide all kinds of information about how to determine if this is a good organization to donate to.
Maryann Kerr 27:18
But we never talk about asking how the staff feel the staff are feeling good, then that’s a good organization to give to him. It’s a really good measure. And so I think everyone should be doing that. Yes, gift. Yeah, whatever way it doesn’t have to be money. Volunteer, give. Just act.
Lindsay Recknell 27:38
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. And you’re right, it is a different perspective, too, to dig a little deeper on the organizational, the culture, the psychological safety, all of those things. Yeah, I think that’s really, really important. Tell us how we can get ahold of you how we can read your book, how we can engage with you,
Maryann Kerr 27:57
my publisher will be so happy that I didn’t even mention the name of the book is tarnished. So you can find it at www.tarnished.ca and I’m on LinkedIn, that’s really the only social media I use. I have a website. But the best place to find me is on LinkedIn.
Lindsay Recknell 28:13
That is amazing. Maryann, this has been such a wonderful conversation, I have learned a ton about a very specific industry. And it’s cool to see the parallels. Just you know, just in how we approach things, of course, the nuances are different, but really, we’re dealing with the humans and the human behaviors and the human minds. And it was really cool to hear what we can do, and also how we can support in different ways, not only the cause, but the humans working to achieve the cause. So it’s been a really valuable conversation for me. Thank you.
Maryann Kerr 28:47
Thank you, Lindsay.
Lindsay Recknell 28:49
Lindsay Recknell 28:51
Thank you for listening to another episode of Mental Health in Minutes. Very fascinating to hear Maryann speak about the social impact sector and the challenges that exist in the industry she worked in for a long time, not dissimilar to other industries. But as this sector attracts people who are typically driven to make change, and to make a difference, it also attracts a high number of empaths. These behaviors can often clash with each other really insightful thoughts that Maryann shared that can be applied in all industries, and especially impactful for changing communities, and the world is a focus.
Lindsay Recknell 29:22
If you loved this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review on your favorite podcast player. You can find this everywhere at mental health in minutes, as well as on the web at www.languageofmentalhealth.com.
Lindsay Recknell 29:34
The thing we do best at mental health in minutes is open the door to conversations about mental health at work. And episodes like this give us real things we can try to truly make a difference. I know you’re making a difference at your workplace or you’d really like to be or you wouldn’t be listening to podcast episodes like these ones. I’d love to help accelerate your impact at work, help you really move the needle on mental health maturity in your workplace and get people to a place where they’re feeling less stressed. more fulfilled and able to integrate work and life in a way that works for them and your organization.
Lindsay Recknell 30:06
Being a people leader is especially hard right now, you might feel like you’re managing both up and down the corporate ladder. And it’s the thought of figuring out how to best support your people and yourself feels overwhelming and impossibly hard. Let’s talk. Let me help you by doing the heavy lifting with resources and materials along with training and facilitation. And you can get back to doing what you do best, engaging with and supporting your people. I have many ways to support you from full service hands on the guidance and support from afar. So let’s chat about what works best for you and for your people.
Lindsay Recknell 30:37
as always, I’m here if you need me
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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