{"id":494,"date":"2022-04-29T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2022-04-29T06:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/"},"modified":"2022-05-13T00:49:12","modified_gmt":"2022-05-13T06:49:12","slug":"embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/","title":{"rendered":"Embracing Neurodiversity in the Workplace with Chris Turner"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>You remember being taught that each person is unique and different and special in their own way. That\u2019s still true. And organizations are finally catching up.<\/p>\n<p>We know that we all react differently to different situations and we need different tools to succeed. Opening the door to those conversations not only supports neurodiverse employees, but entire teams benefit. And are more successful as a result.<\/p>\n<p>This week on the podcast, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/neurodiversity-inclusion\/\">Chris Turner<\/a> of <a href=\"http:\/\/www.neuroadvantage.com.au\">Neuro Advantage<\/a> is sharing what those conversations might look like and how to get them started. And he normalizes the differences we can\u2019t see among team members.<\/p>\n<p>There are so many misconceptions around why one person might react differently to adversity than another. Let\u2019s start the conversation or, better yet, let\u2019s just assume that we all need support in some way.<\/p>\n<p><iframe data-src=\"https:\/\/player.simplecast.com\/d4cfe8e2-8618-46d9-ac6f-5c24aa53f6cf?dark=false\" width=\"100%\" height=\"200px\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\" src=\"data:image\/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAAAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAEAAAICTAEAOw==\" class=\"lazyload\" data-load-mode=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<h4 style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>Listen on your favourite podcast player<\/strong><\/h4>\n<h2>About Chris Turner:<\/h2>\n<p>Chris is the Founder of <a href=\"http:\/\/www.neuroadvantage.com.au\">Neuro Advantage<\/a> &#8211; an inclusion training practice supporting organizations to learn how to be inclusive of Neurodivergent job seekers and employees.<\/p>\n<p>As a parent of an autistic child and with a career of more than 18 years across commercial disciplines Chris understands the challenges faced by neurodivergent individuals along with the organizational need for innovation and productivity.<\/p>\n<p>Neuro Advantage\u2019s mission is to break down the barriers of uncertainty and confusion for employers when it comes to neurodiversity inclusion. By making the complexity of neurodiversity more relatable and presenting ideas through personal stories and experiences, Chris\u2019 goal is to help more people feel confident to support neurodivergent colleagues and to help neurodivergent employees with a range of strategies to find workplace success. Through increased inclusion, organizations and team stand to gain from the advantages that neurodiversity inclusion brings.<\/p>\n<h2>Mentioned In This Episode:<\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li aria-level=\"1\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/neurodiversity-inclusion\/\">Connect with Chris on LinkedIn<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.languageofmentalhealth.com\/subscription\/\">Join the monthly digital subscription<\/a><\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><\/h2>\n<h2>Transcription:<\/h2>\n<p><strong>SUMMARY KEYWORDS<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>people, burnout, understand, support, conversation, person, question, feel, disclose, organizations, workplace, work, mental health, leader, day, lindsay, belonging, adjustment, employer, team<\/p>\n<p><strong>SPEAKERS<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Chris Turner, Lindsay Recknell<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>00:00<\/p>\n<p>Welcome to season four of mental health in minutes. The podcast where we normalize mental health conversations at work, and share the strategies and tactics that make those conversations ones you actually want to have. I&#8217;m your host, Lindsay Recknell, the psychological health and safety advisor, a workplace mental health consultant, a speaker, facilitator and an expert in home. If you&#8217;re listening to this episode, you know, our people need us more than ever, and I know you want to support them, but maybe you don&#8217;t know the words to use to engage them in conversation, or how to respond when they do open up. That&#8217;s what this podcast is all about. My guests will share tactical, practical and simple ways to connect with your people. Let them know you care about them and are there to support them and believe in them enough to continue investing in their career and personal development. Each episode we&#8217;ll also discuss the future of mental health in the workplace, and the top ways we can engage our leadership in the workplace mental health conversation, and have them endorse and pay for a positive culture shift within our organization. It&#8217;s hard to put into words what the first three seasons have meant to me as a workplace mental health professional. I&#8217;m honored to learn from my guests and walk alongside them as they solve some of the biggest issues faced in their organizations today. One of these issues, dare I say the biggest issue I hear from leaders right now is that they and their people are suffering from burnout is syndrome resulting from chronic workplace stress. Burnout is very personal to me. The first time I experienced burnout was November of 2017. And this experience started me on the path to learning everything I could about burnout and what I could do to prevent, especially at work, be assured you can stop the slide. Burnout is not forever, and you do have the power to come back from the edge of burnout, you and your people. I&#8217;ve included a few simple strategies and tactics in my free training try out a package of materials you can download for free right now from my website at https:\/\/www.languageofmentalhealth.com\/tryout. without too much effort on your part, you can get started engaging with your team and teaching them to stop the slide into burnout for themselves. Included in this training tryout, you&#8217;ll find two different lengths of presentations, a 15 minute and a five minute version, as well as the speaker&#8217;s notes for each along with a quick training video and a checklist to help you get started. Easy peasy. Just go to https:\/\/www.languageofmentalhealth.com\/tryout and download your free copy now. I&#8217;ll also link to the download in the show notes of this episode. Let me know how it goes.&nbsp; This week&#8217;s guest is super interesting, and I&#8217;m really excited to introduce you to him. Chris Turner is the founder of neuro advantage and inclusion training practice supporting organizations to learn how to be inclusive of neurodivergent job seekers and employees. As a parent of an autistic child and with the career of more than 18 years across commercial disciplines. Chris understands the challenges faced by neurodivergent individuals along with the organizational need for innovation and productivity. Neuro advantages mission is to break down the barriers of uncertainty and confusion for employers when it comes to neuro diversity inclusion by making the complexity of neuro diversity more relatable and presenting ideas through personal stories and experiences. Chris&#8217;s goal is to help more people feel confident to support neurodivergent colleagues and to help neurodivergent employees with a range of strategies to find workplace success. Through increased inclusion organizations and teams stand to gain from the advantages that neurodiversity inclusion brings. There is so much to learn in this episode. So let&#8217;s get to it. Hello, Chris, welcome to the show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>03:22<\/p>\n<p>Great to be here, Lindsay. Thanks for having me on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>03:25<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m really excited for this conversation. I think you have an expertise that so many people need to hear about. So maybe we&#8217;ll start with you sharing who you are, what you do and who you serve.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>03:35<\/p>\n<p>Sure, sure. So my name is Chris Turner, and I provide coaching for Neuro divergent employees, and or their managers. So they can go both ways or either way or, or only one or the other. And also do awareness and inclusion training for organizations looking to improve the way that they can be more inclusive of a broader range of people. And really help them understand what your diversity is, what isn&#8217;t a lot of misconceptions, and how to make simple changes to make a lot of people a lot more comfortable.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>04:14<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m going to ask the obvious question. What is neurodiversity?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>04:19<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s a good question, isn&#8217;t it? It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s an interesting term, actually. And it&#8217;s it is a very, very broad definition, right? So you can capture lots of people. But if we start with the simple version that might say that neurodiversity is the concept or the idea that we can be different in the way our minds and brains work, just those who might have gender diversity, which is really obvious. I think we all get that one. Or you could have racial diversity. So this thing can be these really physical outward differences. And but sometimes the way we differ is the way out of it, and neurology the way our brain works. So some common And I guess, differences that get captured under that umbrella that people would be aware of, is things like autism, dyslexia, ADHD, you could also do include things like Tourette&#8217;s acquired brain injury, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s a whole range of things where someone&#8217;s mental makeup is different to, you know, quote unquote, there&#8217;s a norm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>05:24<\/p>\n<p>I love that we get to have these kinds of conversation, because so often, people show up at work. And of course, because it&#8217;s a process in our brain, it&#8217;s not obvious, it doesn&#8217;t show up for people. But our behavior shows up in ways that people feel uncomfortable to address, manage, make the make the neurodiverse person feel uncomfortable, and that they don&#8217;t belong, or, like they aren&#8217;t included. And that&#8217;s not cool or appropriate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>05:57<\/p>\n<p>So 100%. So I think you&#8217;ll find and what I&#8217;ve found, actually, in terms of talking to organizations, and and talking to lots of different people is when you start working through carnival, what what, what can it look like in a workplace setting? And yeah, what can some of those challenges that II and how might they manifest? And what could you start to think about doing as a result? You often see, and it&#8217;s awesome, right? When it happens is the light bulb goes off? And goes, actually, you know what, that&#8217;s really applicable to pretty much everybody, like, we all have the same bass challenges. And it&#8217;s, I think that&#8217;s what&#8217;s is absolutely true and white, one of the other reasons why I think it makes it hard at times for people to kind of mentally grapple with this thing. IE, firstly, as you say, you can&#8217;t see it necessarily, but there&#8217;s not really any outward perception at random. And the other thing is that you&#8217;ll get people who, for what&#8217;s a different things, they seem to be the same as, as you. And other times, they really not. And it&#8217;s kind of that trying to create that mental bridge around understanding what How can all this be the same. And yet, that is so different. And it&#8217;s overall find is, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s not that they are fundamentally different. It&#8217;s the way it&#8217;s the the degree to which a common sort of mundane type scene impacts a person. Why so if I said to you, like, imagine, you&#8217;re on your way to work. And let&#8217;s say you catch the bus, I don&#8217;t know, if you do Lindsay, maybe you do, maybe you don&#8217;t, let&#8217;s say you do, right, you&#8217;re catching the bus to work, and your bus is late. And you end up being 30 minutes like to work there, that situation probably will make you feel a bit uncomfortable, you&#8217;re a little bit anxious your level of stress on life or work or going to catch up on so the rest of it right. But you might be able to manage through that might be able to kind of deal with that, put it behind you and move on with the rest of your day without any real repercussions whatsoever. Whereas somebody else that could be the catalyst that completely destroys the rest of the day, like the anxiety levels is so heightened in their car come down their ability to focus throughout the rest of the day, because it is sort of just that you kind of thrown them completely off track. And it&#8217;s so hard for them to get back on track for the rest of the day. And then that can bleed into the evening and potentially into the following day. And so it&#8217;s the same theme, the same incident has happened. But the degree to which it impacts on one can vary massively and it&#8217;s it&#8217;s that&#8217;s the sort of fundamental underlying thing that I see time and time again, that people struggle to get it because everything else can be the same. And yet this one thing is just like, I don&#8217;t understand why. And so that&#8217;s that&#8217;s the kind of the bridge that I try to work with people to create.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>08:53<\/p>\n<p>You bring up a such an incredible point, which feels obvious once you said it out loud. But it&#8217;s It&#8217;s everybody&#8217;s going to respond in a different way to the same situation. I mean, we talk about this all the time perception comes from your lived experience, and how you perceive an exact situation comes from your own experience, compounded by how your brain works like that, you know, it does it. It&#8217;s no different. It&#8217;s just scope and scale.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>09:25<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it is it is any think about one of the other ways that I try to help people kind of get into the conceptual zone is you think about a time when you met someone from a country for the first time you meet someone from a different country, and probably a country that is culturally quite different to your own. Right and the way that that person may communicate. Somebody sort of standard social behaviors, like those social norms that they may have can be really, really different by whether it&#8217;s the way someone greets the way someone might eat. Just someone those sort of simple day to day type behaviors can be really different, right? Because we do have cultural norms around the things, we believe the things we do the same as we say. And that can be really, really different. And so if you&#8217;re not used to that it can be quite tricky or challenging to or confronting even to navigate through, right. But it doesn&#8217;t mean you&#8217;re right, and they&#8217;re wrong, or vice versa. It&#8217;s just different, right? And it&#8217;s a kind of how do you reconcile that difference in the way you then collectively come together? And I think when you go to someone else who&#8217;s where that difference is, as you say, like it&#8217;s it&#8217;s in, it&#8217;s still sort of internalized, but it&#8217;s been driven from a different source.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>10:45<\/p>\n<p>Well, and also, that, it comes back to what you said at the beginning that this is about diversity. And we all know the language of diversity, which is great, like, that&#8217;s progress that we&#8217;ve made in the last five or 10 years. But and seeing it through the lens of, of cultural differences is, is again, easy to understand. Because, you know, we are familiar with that language, we are familiar with that work that we&#8217;ve been doing over the last 10 years. Why do you think? Like, I feel like this is an evolution of diversity, and and how, how are organizations hearing you or engaging you in this kind of work? Are they asking for it? Is it something people are asking for now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>11:39<\/p>\n<p>Because it&#8217;s, it is super cool. Like, and I think it&#8217;s, I feel like it&#8217;s been a little bit of it is this started the snowball, I feel like like as a globally, yeah, we&#8217;re kind of at the top of the mountain. And we&#8217;ve kind of got this snowball that&#8217;s definitely formed. Right? And, and there&#8217;s a whole bunch of hands at the moment, sort of nudging and roll and add in a little bit on the sides and the right, they&#8217;re trying to get this thing ready to go. And it feels like it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s getting to that size, that&#8217;s going to be useful. And it&#8217;s getting towards the cusp, the end of the lip of the mountain and just something soon is going to happen, that&#8217;s going to just knock it over the edge and we&#8217;ll go outdoors, we&#8217;ll be looking back in five years time going, why would we even talking about that? Right? It&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s just the way we do stuff now. Right? But we&#8217;re not there yet. And five years may be somewhat optimistic, in reality, but yeah, I think it is something I think I think about the conversations I was having three years ago, and it was kind of a, I say What now, what was was the stick to yeah, having more and more people reach out, say, hey, look, we&#8217;ve got this person who&#8217;s just started, they&#8217;ve disclosed that they&#8217;ve got ADHD and what we&#8217;re really, really keen to give them as much support as we possibly can. And we want to look after him and make them help them be successful at work. So from what I hear in that is a couple of really, really important things is that more and more people are feeling more confident to disclose. And more organizations are obviously doing something different to help them feel more confident than displays in the first place. And they&#8217;re proactively wanting to do things to help that staff member and other staff members thrive at work, which is fantastic, right. And so I think that the lens has started to shift. And I think what we&#8217;ve got to try to do more and more sort of, sort of share and celebrate those organs in it. It&#8217;s not about being successful, right? It&#8217;s about who&#8217;s trying. Like I tell my kids, right, I told my kids to same thing. I don&#8217;t care if you win or lose. I care if you make an effort if you have a go. Right. That&#8217;s the thing that really matters. And I think that&#8217;s the thing, we try to try and celebrate more and more. Yeah, it&#8217;s that who&#8217;s having a go at this and making an effort to do something different. And learn from that. But yeah, the conversation has definitely shifted.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>14:10<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I love I love that. Something you said there at the beginning about the employee feeling comfortable to disclose because, you know, they are feeling maybe I&#8217;ve heard that that people who are diagnosed with neurodiversity, especially later in life, there is quite a, I don&#8217;t know, an acceptance a, an awesomeness, a feeling of belonging to this group of people where prior to a diagnosis, they, they felt different. They felt strange, they felt like they didn&#8217;t fit in. And so now that they have this feeling of belonging, they&#8217;re like, yes, my employer needs to know because this is a new thing and I need to be supported in this way. So I think that&#8217;s really really awesome. Like, is Is there any obligation for somebody to disclose? Is there any, like, Can an employer ask?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>15:08<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, so it&#8217;s really interesting. I think there&#8217;s probably two sides to that. Obviously, there&#8217;s the employer side and the employee side, the employer side, as far as I&#8217;m aware, you look at probably most sort of Western nations employment legislation, certainly tends to limit the ability of the employer to ask those sorts of questions or to delve into that too much. I think you can definitely ask, typically, I know you&#8217;re here, at least you can ask the question. Yeah. Do you have? Do you identify as belonging to particular types of cohorts, you may not be able to necessarily always go specific. But I think the question that I see is the questions that I start to see more and more that people are asking is, is less about? Do you have a diagnosis of some form? And it&#8217;s more about? Do you have other adjustments in the life that we can make to help you write other things that you, you, you need to succeed? Right? So which is actually the crux of the question, right, it&#8217;s really, like, doesn&#8217;t matter if you are autistic, or have ADHD or dyslexic? Or does it matter that actually, in order for me to be successful at work, I kind of need this sort of environment. And if you think about it, if you take that lens, well, that relates to everybody. So if an autistic person might say the, like a reasonable adjustment for me, that&#8217;s going to help me he&#8217;s like I can&#8217;t, I want to avoid the peak hour traffic morning and night, because it&#8217;s really stressful. Yeah, generates a lot of anxiety. And that impacts my ability to be effective at work. So I want to travel either want to start late, finish early, whatever it might be adjusted, start and end times. A simple thing to do, right? Think about a working parent is going to drop kids off, pick kids up, it&#8217;s the same adjustment that you are probably already allowing for people. In other situations, it&#8217;s just applying it to someone. Okay, so this person doesn&#8217;t have a child. may do. They may not right. But it&#8217;s just for a different sort of reason. But it&#8217;s the same kinds of things. So again, like I think, the way we can adjust and support people, in many of these situations, it&#8217;s not anything necessarily unique or different to what we probably do today. It&#8217;s just understanding that sometimes people have a different rationale for gaining value out of that adjustment. That change. I think the you asked about, Lindsey asked about the obligation on the individual to disclose. So I my personal view on this would be absolutely not, there&#8217;s no obligation at all, that shouldn&#8217;t need to disclose. Ideally, I kind of put my rose tinted glasses on now and I look to the future is that this should never be a need for them to disclose because it should just be a matter of let&#8217;s have a conversation about how can we support you to be successful? Why he&#8217;s kind of secondary, if you want to share that sweet, let&#8217;s have a conversation that&#8217;s going to help us understand each other deeper as individuals. But beyond that doesn&#8217;t matter shouldn&#8217;t matter. And for a lot of the things that it shouldn&#8217;t even need to ask because the workplace is sufficiently flexible and adaptable to support lots of different types of working styles. So yeah, I think it&#8217;s less about the individual needing to disclose, though, at the moment, I guess there&#8217;s probably for some people, there&#8217;s value in doing it, there can be a benefit. But I think we have to really appreciate that a lot of people have gone down that path. And it&#8217;s bitten them really badly. Like they&#8217;ve had some really bad experiences they&#8217;ve been either bullied or mistreated in some way as a result, and discriminated against as a result. So they&#8217;re really, really worried about doing that. There&#8217;s still too much stigma around a lot of these things. So you know, it&#8217;s a tricky one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>18:52<\/p>\n<p>I love what you said about looking at it from a different lens and look asking the question on, what can we do as your employer as your leader as your team to help you be more successful? Again, back to a question, we should be asking all the people?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>19:08<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, you want a successful team? I mean, who doesn&#8217;t? Right? All right. I&#8217;m not sure there&#8217;s too many leaders out there that go, You know what, I want the crappiest team around. I want us to fail consistently, once doing that, right. So, but how do you get there? How do you have a successful team? And it&#8217;s not about saying, Oh, well, we all going to work in this one homogenous way, because that will obviously work for everybody. Right? Because I just hired a bunch of robots. So unless you&#8217;ve done that, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s great. But if you haven&#8217;t even actually hired people, human beings, they&#8217;re all going to be different. They&#8217;re all going to have different stuff going on. And the thing is that these situations will change over time as well. So what&#8217;s working today won&#8217;t necessarily work in two years time or six months time something can happen. You know, and that might happen for A short period of maybe a permanent change. So yeah, it&#8217;s I think it&#8217;s a question we can&#8217;t just ask once either it&#8217;s got to be an ongoing conversation. That and and giving us the ability to have that both ways. Communication that two way street<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>20:16<\/p>\n<p>and feedback as a two way street as well, you know, the ability to not only say, this is what this is what&#8217;s going on for me, but here&#8217;s how it could be different. And that person on the other end of that feedback, hearing them, accepting them not getting their backup about it, and all that kind of thing as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>20:35<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, that can sometimes be be hard. I&#8217;ve worked with a number of clients who know things aren&#8217;t working for them. But don&#8217;t necessarily have the direct personal insight into what would or how to get around and navigate around that challenge. And I guess that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s often where I come in to help them kind of what&#8217;s fine. That what that could be. Some people can have a have real awareness, maybe they&#8217;ve been through before they&#8217;ve tried some stuff already. And they know. And and other times, they may not. And so that&#8217;s where, I guess, as a leader can play a real critical role in helping the individual navigate through options. Yeah. And and it can be just a matter of, well, we don&#8217;t, it could, we don&#8217;t really know what the answer is. But let&#8217;s try something, give it a go. If it works, great. If it doesn&#8217;t, well, what can we learn from that? And we&#8217;ll try something else. You people are very variable, right? So you it&#8217;s there&#8217;s not always a simple answer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>21:36<\/p>\n<p>No, if there was a simple answer, you and I would be out of a job. So there&#8217;s some thinking about leaders who are recognizing maybe a change in behavior to one of their team members. Let&#8217;s go back to your case study of being late for work. And this person has an extreme reaction was not able to manage? How does a leader address that team member? Is there? Is there some language that you can offer a script to even on how a leader can connect with that person in a compassionate way?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>22:21<\/p>\n<p>I think I think one of the things to start with these kind of mindset on these things. So it can be really easy to jump to a presumption of performance. So okay, I&#8217;m sitting there, it&#8217;s come lunchtime, and I&#8217;m looking at this person and thinking, geez, they&#8217;re not. They&#8217;re not getting anything done. Yeah, they haven&#8217;t attended the last app team meeting just before. And now I&#8217;ve asked them some questions. And they&#8217;ve maybe been highly been dismissive or responded in a way that I&#8217;m not not accustomed to with them. And, you know, you could easily then assume that it&#8217;s them not wanting to perform in some way that is a performance based issue, as opposed to thinking, I wonder think it&#8217;s about being curious. I wonder what&#8217;s happening here. I wonder why that could be happening. I think that&#8217;s probably a really, really important sort of first mental step to make is don&#8217;t assume, because you never really know. It could be that person&#8217;s either a dog died, mother died, something could have happened, right? The kid just got really sick last night and had to take him to hospital and they didn&#8217;t get home until four in the morning. It could be a whole range of things. It could be that they just hate you and I hate the job. But it&#8217;s I think it&#8217;s important to be curious. And then to try and ask questions. And I think, you know, again, it can be really, really difficult, right? Because because people can respond in such different ways. And then it might be hard to work out what to do next. So I might go and ask, How are you feeling? Are you okay? Today might be too simple opening something along those lines, right? Just ask about how they&#8217;re feeling. Are they alright? Something might come out of that something may not. And I think you&#8217;ve caught it. Just try to work with that as best as you can. But I think it&#8217;s try to step away from a presumption around performance or attitude, and be curious about what&#8217;s happening underneath<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>24:23<\/p>\n<p>Beautiful. And not being afraid of those potentially awkward conversations. I think sometimes we think, Oh, I don&#8217;t know what to say I&#8217;m uncomfortable. And so we just say nothing at all. And the team members, the other people on the team, they see that as well. They see in action, they see somebody quote, getting away with bad behavior, bad performance. What kind of thoughts or advice do you have for the colleagues, the team members that are on the team, not necessarily the leaders but the other people that are working With these fine folks day to day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>25:02<\/p>\n<p>So in to a fair extent, I kind of don&#8217;t, I can&#8217;t, I&#8217;m not sure that there&#8217;s a real distinction. You&#8217;re all working together. You&#8217;re all there. I&#8217;ve been ideally, I, for me, personally, I like to work in a team where we support each other, we understand each other, it doesn&#8217;t. I&#8217;m not saying we have to be all be mates and go out and have lunch together every day. It&#8217;s not like that, right? But it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s you&#8217;re working as a group. And if you see someone on the team who&#8217;s if it looks obvious to you, that something&#8217;s different, that they&#8217;re off in some way. Reach out, ask them how you go. Hey, I noticed this morning you came in? We&#8217;re going a bit frazzled, every single right this morning. It&#8217;s same questions, I think, just be curious. And don&#8217;t presume, because I think that the I think it&#8217;s in some ways, it&#8217;s even harder for the the other team members as you say, like if they sit back do nothing, see the manager or the leader do nothing. And you can kind of then start stewing in your own little bubble of assumptions around what&#8217;s going on here. And it&#8217;s unfair, and all the rest of it, when actually you got no idea what&#8217;s going on. And ask you who you can ask to ask. You might not get an answer. You might not get one that makes any sense to you. But maybe you&#8217;ve approached the conversation. And perhaps what happens then is the next time something happens, you know, someone might feel more comfortable to go, hey, you know what? Yeah, Billy asked me last time I was had a really bad morning, maybe, Billy guess? Maybe Billy has an interest. And when he asks me the next time around, maybe I&#8217;m gonna feel a lot more confident to share something. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the personal risk we often face in being vulnerable at work is really high. Yeah, and asking just for us saying, I think before we started Lindsay via your How do you create that psychological safety in the team? And for me, I think one of the key things around that is having curiosity and avoiding assumptions as much as possible. And being prepared to even if you don&#8217;t understand, Isaac, because of for me, I think understanding and acceptance are so different, right? I don&#8217;t think you need to understand. But you can accept. Yeah. So like, I don&#8217;t understand how my light comes on when I flick the switch in a house, but I accept that it does. And I think that you can kind of take the same thing to somebody, I don&#8217;t understand why this thing is hard for them, or why this affected them so much. Because it&#8217;s just so different to me, but I don&#8217;t need to understand the underlying bits, but I can accept, you&#8217;re sure this has affected them. And it&#8217;s really hard for them, because that&#8217;s the reality. You can&#8217;t debate that. Right? That&#8217;s that person&#8217;s truth. Like it&#8217;s, you can&#8217;t argue that away. But if you can accept it, then you&#8217;re in a position to actually then support and be helpful, you know, and I think that goes both ways. Because the individual can be really challenged. What Why does everybody else find this so hard for me? And what some of the work that I do with with people is to help them better understand that. Yeah, in your mind, this is your reality. But it&#8217;s not necessarily everyone else&#8217;s. So how can we find a way to cross that gap a little bit, and find find a place to meet somewhere in the middle? Or somewhere in between?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>28:32<\/p>\n<p>If I think the under the overarching theme of our entire conversation is that although there&#8217;s this cool subset of folks that are, you know, identifying as being neurodivergent, and having cool, you know, the way that their brain works, generally speaking, how we get along with those friends are the same as we get to engage with the other friends. Because we&#8217;re all different. We all have cool curiosities, and the way that we respond in life and our perceptions are different and our mindsets are different. And I think that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s the white bar, the proverbial light bulb that&#8217;s going on for me is that it doesn&#8217;t have to be. So I don&#8217;t know, the stigma around it doesn&#8217;t have to be so large because it&#8217;s if we just think about us all as unique individuals and approach us all from the same perspectives with different considerations and understanding the whole we&#8217;d all be better off.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>29:36<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s, it&#8217;s just I think it&#8217;s, I think it&#8217;s hard for for many people, because you can be sitting across from someone who looks and sounds like you has the same kind of cultural background has the same sort of potentially educational experiences, not like the socio economic background is the same like for all intents and purposes, the kind of view And yet they&#8217;re not. And like, it&#8217;s kind of just trying to extend understanding versus acceptance thing from our think is what it comes down to is this like, well, the way they communicate is so different to. And I find this really challenging, I find it really hard. And it could be the way they think about things are the how they might be, find something&#8217;s easy, and something&#8217;s hard. I like just grappling with these differences. When otherwise, I feel like I&#8217;m working with someone who&#8217;s made. Like, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s that sameness, and yet there&#8217;s difference there. Whereas if it&#8217;s someone who is fundamentally different to you, from a different cultural background, different religious background, maybe has a physical disability. So there&#8217;s an obvious sort of difference. You can kind of, maybe it&#8217;s easier in some ways to navigate around. And when it&#8217;s not, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s what is in congruence is that people are trying to grapple with. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>31:03<\/p>\n<p>And that&#8217;s the development opportunity, right? Like, we have accepted cultural differences and physical differences and things like that. And now we get to get our mind wrapped around what our eyes can&#8217;t see. And I just think that the work you&#8217;re doing to help us all to make, to make these connections and bring this awareness is so so important. As we go through this next evolution, like we talked about the future of work, you know, hopefully, hopefully, five years from now, or maybe 10, or 20 years from now we look back and think, Oh, why are we even talking about this? Because it&#8217;s obvious that this is how we should be interacting with with our people. But I just I thank you so so much for spending your time with us today. It&#8217;s been a such a great conversation, and you are you&#8217;re doing such important work. And I love that organizations are embracing, wanting to do this work, which is also new.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner&nbsp; <\/strong>31:58<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s good. It&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a lot easier to work with people who want to do something, and they understand why it matters. And yes, there is good business sense around it. Yes, there&#8217;s, yeah, there&#8217;s a shortage of talent. And there&#8217;s lots of these other really important reasons. But at the end of the day, they are most of the people I&#8217;ve worked with, they understand it, because it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a human issue. And I understand it&#8217;s important to include people and to be supportive of everyone.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>32:24<\/p>\n<p>So how can people get a hold of you when they want to support their people in this way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Chris Turner <\/strong>32:31<\/p>\n<p>So you can find me on LinkedIn. And and that&#8217;s probably a good place to grab me. Or you can jump on on my website, which is http:\/\/www.neuroadvantage.com.au? I am based in Australia, but we&#8217;re talking here now. And we&#8217;re a long way apart. So I&#8217;m more than happy to have a conversation and chat to people wherever they are. So can be pretty flexible. Yeah, I mean, the world is a small place these days. Isn&#8217;t that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsay Recknell&nbsp; <\/strong>33:03<\/p>\n<p>Great. I love it. I love the opportunity to to have conversations with you half a world away, we will absolutely link to all of your places into the show notes to make it really easy for people to connect with you. Again, thank you for sharing your brilliance and your tactics and some of your scripts and questions, literal questions that we can ask. I think you&#8217;ve definitely elevated the mental health maturity here with us today. So thanks so much. It was great fun. It really was enjoy the rest of your day. Thanks, Lindsay. Thanks, Chris.<\/p>\n<p>I just love the way Chris made this seemingly complicated topic so relatable and easy to accept. We talked about that as well. The difference between accepting someone and understanding someone you don&#8217;t need to understand completely to accept someone&#8217;s reality. And I love the compassion inherent that line of thinking so much about this interview has really stuck with me and I hope you loved it as well. At the beginning of the show, I mentioned the free training, you can try it with your teams all about stopping the slide into burnout, that feeling of overwhelm and endless stress so many of us are experiencing right now. To complement those materials which you can download for free from my website at https:\/\/www.languageofmentalhealth.com\/tryout. I&#8217;ve also created a 60 minute live virtual or in person workshop, titled from burnout to hope, which has been transformational for so many organizations. You and your team will lead this workshop understanding how to identify the signs of burnout in yourselves and others how to put into action the evidence based strategies and tactics to reverse feelings of overwhelm and languishing and activate the hope circuit in your brain for a future even better than today. It&#8217;s helpful, practical and transformative, and I&#8217;d love to bring it to your organization. On our website you&#8217;ll find more information about this workshop as well as the mental health and minutes digital subscription, a done for your package of presentations and other content designed to help you make meaningful connections with your people to increase your knowledge and education about mental health related topics and to normalize these kinds of conversations in your workplace. The thing we do best at mental health in minutes is open the door to conversations about mental health at work. And episodes like this give us real things we can try to truly make a difference. Being a people leader is especially hard right now, you might feel like you&#8217;re managing both up and down the corporate ladder. And if the thought of figuring out how to best support your people and yourself feels overwhelming and impossibly hard, let&#8217;s talk. We&#8217;re here to do the heavy lifting with resources and materials, along with the training and facilitation leaving you to do what you do best engaging with and supporting your people. We have many ways to support you from full service hands on to guidance and support from afar. So let&#8217;s chat about what works best for you and your people. As always, I&#8217;m here if you need me.<\/p>\n<p>Transcribed by https:\/\/otter.ai<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/ca\/podcast\/mental-health-in-minutes\/id1556675588\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><br \/>\nApple<br \/>\n<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/feed\/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS83S1NNN2txMA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><br \/>\n<\/a><br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/4qLSn2N6UsrhgcrBgucmgw\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><br \/>\nSpotify<br \/>\n<\/a><\/p>\n<h3>Share to social!<\/h3>\n<p>Share on facebook<br \/>\nFacebook<br \/>\nShare on twitter<br \/>\nTwitter<br \/>\nShare on linkedin<br \/>\nLinkedIn<br \/>\nShare on pinterest<br \/>\nPinterest<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>One of the coolest things about the human experience is that we\u2019re all uniquely different, bringing our strengths and opportunities to work. In this week\u2019s podcast, Chris Turner shares how we can recognize our neurodiversity and set everyone up for success.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":495,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[38,13],"tags":[35,107,62,108,98,109,34,37],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v22.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Embracing Neurodiversity in the Workplace with Chris Turner - Mental Health for Leaders<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Embracing Neurodiversity in the Workplace with Chris Turner - Mental Health for Leaders\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"One of the coolest things about the human experience is that we\u2019re all uniquely different, bringing our strengths and opportunities to work. In this week\u2019s podcast, Chris Turner shares how we can recognize our neurodiversity and set everyone up for success.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Mental Health for Leaders\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:publisher\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/languageofmentalhealth\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2022-04-29T06:00:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2022-05-13T06:49:12+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/MHIM-podcast-LI-image-10-1-2.png\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1080\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"1080\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/png\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Lindsay Recknell\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Lindsay Recknell\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"30 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"Lindsay Recknell\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/#\/schema\/person\/f4ca8601c7f87fbd9710a6e871608241\"},\"headline\":\"Embracing Neurodiversity in the Workplace with Chris Turner\",\"datePublished\":\"2022-04-29T06:00:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2022-05-13T06:49:12+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/\"},\"wordCount\":6748,\"commentCount\":0,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/#organization\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/#primaryimage\"},\"thumbnailUrl\":\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/MHIM-podcast-LI-image-10-1-2.png\",\"keywords\":[\"Burnout\",\"conversation\",\"healthy workplace\",\"leader\",\"mental health\",\"neurodiversity\",\"psychological safety\",\"workplace mental health\"],\"articleSection\":[\"Podcast\",\"Workplace Mental Health\"],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/embracing-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace-with-chris-turner\/\",\"name\":\"Embracing Neurodiversity in the Workplace with Chris Turner - 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