{"id":914,"date":"2022-05-23T09:19:48","date_gmt":"2022-05-23T15:19:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/?p=914"},"modified":"2022-05-23T09:28:18","modified_gmt":"2022-05-23T15:28:18","slug":"forward-thinking-hr-leadership-with-jennifer-mcclure","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/podcast\/forward-thinking-hr-leadership-with-jennifer-mcclure\/","title":{"rendered":"Forward-Thinking HR Leadership with Jennifer McClure"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t<div data-elementor-type=\"wp-post\" data-elementor-id=\"914\" class=\"elementor elementor-914\" data-elementor-post-type=\"post\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-4bfa7186 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"4bfa7186\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-7fd36495\" data-id=\"7fd36495\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-78b6beed elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"78b6beed\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<style>\/*! elementor - v3.21.0 - 18-04-2024 *\/\n.elementor-widget-text-editor.elementor-drop-cap-view-stacked .elementor-drop-cap{background-color:#69727d;color:#fff}.elementor-widget-text-editor.elementor-drop-cap-view-framed .elementor-drop-cap{color:#69727d;border:3px solid;background-color:transparent}.elementor-widget-text-editor:not(.elementor-drop-cap-view-default) .elementor-drop-cap{margin-top:8px}.elementor-widget-text-editor:not(.elementor-drop-cap-view-default) .elementor-drop-cap-letter{width:1em;height:1em}.elementor-widget-text-editor .elementor-drop-cap{float:left;text-align:center;line-height:1;font-size:50px}.elementor-widget-text-editor .elementor-drop-cap-letter{display:inline-block}<\/style>\t\t\t\t<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The world is different than it was 3 years ago, and it is different than it will be 3 years from now. Change is a constant in life and business alike, and as people leaders it&#8217;s an opportunity that we get to intentionally adapt to these changes along the way.<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Today on the podcast, Jennifer McClure joins me to answer questions about what changes HR leadership has faced over the years and how it will continue to change into the future. With an emphasis on skills like problem solving, integrity, and relationship building, it\u2019s clear that the way forward is by prioritizing our people and their mental health.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Tune in as Jennifer shares what mental health skills forward-thinking HR professionals need, how they can learn these skills even when it\u2019s not in the budget, and how we can help them navigate their way forward without them burning out.<\/span><\/p><p><iframe data-src=\"https:\/\/player.simplecast.com\/d1a5a2d8-1caf-45e2-a882-a3244168a044?dark=false\" width=\"100%\" height=\"200px\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\" src=\"data:image\/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAAAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAEAAAICTAEAOw==\" class=\"lazyload\" data-load-mode=\"1\"><\/iframe><\/p><h4 style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong>Listen on your favourite podcast player<\/strong><\/h4><h2>\u00a0<\/h2><h2>About Jennifer McClure<\/h2><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Jennifer McClure is an entrepreneur, keynote speaker, and high-performance coach who works with leaders to leverage their influence, increase their impact, and accelerate results.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Frequently recognized as a global influencer and expert on the future of work, strategic leadership and innovative people strategies, Jennifer has decades of in-the-trenches leadership and executive experience working in and with startups, privately held companies, and Fortune 500 organizations in a variety of industries.\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Jennifer is also the Chief Excitement Officer of <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/disrupthr.co\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">DisruptHR<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, a global community designed to move the collective thinking forward when it comes to talent in the workplace, and the host of the <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/jennifermcclure.net\/category\/podcast\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Impact Makers Podcast<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> with Jennifer McClure.<\/span><\/p><p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">You can connect with Jennifer on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/jennifermcclure\">LinkedIn<\/a>, and follow her on <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/JenniferMcClure\">Twitter<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/instagram.com\/jennifer_mcclure\">Instagram<\/a>, and <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/JenniferMcClureSpeaker\">Facebook<\/a>.<\/span><\/p><h2>Mentioned In This Episode:<\/h2><ul><li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><a href=\"https:\/\/jennifermcclure.net\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Jennifer\u2019s website<\/span><\/a><\/li><li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><a href=\"https:\/\/disrupthr.co\/upcoming-events\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">DisruptHR events<\/span><\/a><\/li><li aria-level=\"1\"><a href=\"https:\/\/annual22.shrm.org\/sessionplanner\/session\/29233\/future-ready-hr-prepared-lead-breakthrough-performance-new-world-work\">Jennifer&#8217;s talk at the SHRM22 Conference &#8211; Future-Ready HR<\/a><\/li><li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><a href=\"https:\/\/annual.shrm.org\/?_ga=2.38876835.1291753548.1651528390-287403054.1651528390\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">SHRM Annual Conference &amp; Expo<\/span><\/a><\/li><li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><a href=\"https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com\/skills\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mental Health Skills Training<\/span><\/a><\/li><\/ul><h2>\u00a0<\/h2><h2>Transcription:<\/h2><div id=\"conversation-header-keywords\" class=\"conversation-detail__title__keywords ng-star-inserted\"><p><strong>SUMMARY KEYWORDS<\/strong><\/p><p>people, organization, leaders, hr leaders, business, jennifer, mental health, solve, hr, influence, skills, building, impact, future, opportunities, podcast, learning, problems, sharing, hr professionals<\/p><p><strong>SPEAKERS<\/strong><\/p><p>Jennifer McClure, Lindsay Recknell<\/p><p>\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>00:01<\/p><p>You are a people leader or an HR professional, working hard to create an amazing employee experience for your team and your organization. But between the operational tasks of your job managing emotions and politics both up and down the corporate ladder, and trying to find some semblance of work life integration in your own life, I suspect you are also overwhelmed and burnt out. If even the thought of navigating the complicated world of mental health at work probably seems like too much to handle.\u00a0 Let this podcast be your not so secret weapon to help fix that. I&#8217;m your host Lindsay Recknell. And my mission is to help great leaders like you feel less awkward and more confident talking about mental health at work. So you can stress less, take more action and continue to make a valuable difference in your job as a leader positively impacting the lives of your I&#8217;ll be bringing you the experts insights and actions that will give you the skills you need to navigate mental health in the workplace and foster a workplace where everyone&#8217;s mental health can thrive.\u00a0 Jennifer McClure is an entrepreneur, keynote speaker and a high performance coach who works with leaders to leverage their influence to increase their impact and accelerate their results. Jennifer is also a speaker at the upcoming SHRM conference being held in New Orleans in June of 2022. And I&#8217;m super excited to have her on the podcast. Frequently recognized as a global influencer and expert on the future of work on strategic leadership and innovative people strategies. Jennifer has decades of in the trenches, leadership and executive experience working in and with startups with privately held companies and fortune 500 organizations in a variety of industries. Jennifer is also the chief excitement Officer of Disrupt HR, a global community designed to move the collective thinking forward when it comes to talent in the workplace. She&#8217;s also the host of the impact makers podcast with Jennifer McClure, which I highly recommend you check out. Jennifer is intelligent, hilarious and insightful. And I know you&#8217;re really going to like what she has to say. So let&#8217;s get to it.\u00a0 Before we get started, I want your time to be valuable here. So in order to get the most from this podcast, head to my website at https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com. And download the Guide to Influence &amp; Impact at Work, which has the step by step action plan, you&#8217;ll need to embed a focus on mental health into the employee experience of your workplace. It&#8217;s totally free. And it&#8217;ll give you the start to your action plan steps to follow to create engagement to build a budget and a method to measure the value influence and impact that you are going to be making as you lead this transformational change in your organization. We haven&#8217;t been taught the mental health skills we need to truly lead our organizations into the future. So let this guide and this podcast be the advantage you need to elevate your career, your leadership skills and the positive impact you&#8217;ll bring to your organization, head to https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com and download the free Guide to Influence &amp; Impact at Work now. The opportunity is yours, and I cannot wait to see what you&#8217;ll do. All right. Now let&#8217;s get to our guest.\u00a0 Hello, Jennifer, welcome to the show.<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure\u00a0 <\/strong>03:04<\/p><p>Thank you. It&#8217;s great to be here with you today.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>03:07<\/p><p>It is such a pleasure to have you here. I&#8217;m really excited to hear about future ready HR and all of the crystal ball reading that we&#8217;re gonna get to do today. But maybe let&#8217;s start with you. Could you share with us a little bit about who you are, what you do and who you serve?<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure\u00a0 <\/strong>03:22<\/p><p>Sure. I&#8217;m Jennifer McClure, and I&#8217;m the CEO of my own company called Unbridled Talent, where I&#8217;m a professional speaker and trainer, and an executive coach working with leaders to find and create their path to most impact. I&#8217;m also the chief excitement Officer of Disrupt HR, which is a global community of people who are holding events around the world where people give five minutes 20 slides automatically advancing every 15 seconds slides, talks where they&#8217;re sharing their ideas about the workplace and the future of work. We&#8217;ve been a little quiet like a lot of live events over the last couple of years, but starting to come back. So hopefully a Disrupt HR event is somewhere and round you.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>04:04<\/p><p>I have been to a Disrupt HR event and it is the most exciting and nerve wracking and innovation idea filled room, it was so cool. And the talent of some of the speakers the preparation, because those slides are advancing every 20 seconds without them. Like just the just the skill of some of those presenters was amazing. It was it was awesome. I I cannot wait to get to have one of those back in my city. So that&#8217;s very cool. I didn&#8217;t know that about you. So thanks for sharing. We connected because I know that you are going to be a speaker at the SHRM conference coming up here on June starting on June 12 of 2022. And I&#8217;d love for you to share a little bit about what you&#8217;re going to speak about at that conference.<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>04:53<\/p><p>Yeah, I&#8217;m really excited about the conference. It&#8217;s always the destination event for me every year I&#8217;ve spoken to the conference. Every year since 2013, or 14, I forget which one and Atlanta. And this year I&#8217;ll be talking on the topic of future ready HR and the skills and the competencies that HR leaders need now and into the future to ensure that we&#8217;re able to step into what I believe is the most important position in any organization, which is the people leader, the person who is helping to align the talent strategy with the business strategy, but also ensuring that the employees are getting what they need out of the employee experience. So that&#8217;s what we&#8217;ll be talking about in my session.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>05:36<\/p><p>And I can&#8217;t imagine that it&#8217;ll have you&#8217;ll have anything new to talk about after the last two years of that transition that the HR role has gone through? And what that looks like, for the future as well. I wonder, could you give us a little preview of your talk? What, you know, what do you see as the number one future trend for HR professionals?<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>06:00<\/p><p>Well, it&#8217;s interesting, I think, you know, and I&#8217;ve had conversations with people recently about, you know, what we&#8217;re talking about is needed now and into the future. If you really think about it is not so different than what I know I&#8217;ve been talking about for the last 12 years as a professional speaker. It&#8217;s just I think that the context has changed. You know, What skills does an HR leader need to be able to develop in order to have the most impact in their organization, I think they&#8217;re very similar to what they were pre 2020, you need to know and understand the business and understand how to use data to show what both the problems challenges and the opportunities are in the organization to be able to sell your ideas and to get your ideas heard. So that hasn&#8217;t changed. The the things you might be presenting proposals on may be different, but to be able to really build an effective business case to understand and identify what the problem is that understanding deep understanding of the business and the data that you can use to identify and present opportunities to solve those problems is still necessary. Also still necessary is the ability to understand what are the most complex problems that the business faces. The difference now then, maybe three or four years ago is that those are going to be changing at a more rapid pace than ever. Change has always been a constant over the last few years. But it&#8217;s just there is never going to be a time I think in the future where we&#8217;re not going to be doing something different within 12 months than we were the previous year. Technology is changing, the global situation is changing. consumer demands are changing, employee demands are changing. So everything is changing quickly. But really being able to hone in on what are the biggest problems that we need to solve now and into the near and distant future is a skill set that I think HR leaders need, then also really understanding how to develop and build your influence. That is a critical skill that is often overlooked, we have leaders who manage by title or position, you know, do this because I say or because I&#8217;m the C HR row or whatever. But that&#8217;s not the way to get things done. And that&#8217;s not the way to get people on board. So building trust, building relationships, understanding what influence is and how to use it. And the difference between influence and manipulation, I think is a really critical skill for leaders now and in the future. So those are some of the things we&#8217;ll be talking about in my session. And they&#8217;re also things I was talking about three or four years ago, but we&#8217;ll we&#8217;ll be obviously putting them into a different context as to where we are today and where we&#8217;re headed.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>08:32<\/p><p>No, I can&#8217;t wait for your session. I like the future thinking kind of it kind of talks, it gets me it gets me excited about what&#8217;s possible, those opportunities that you talked about, do you think, do HR have these skills? Generally speaking?<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>08:47<\/p><p>Yeah. You know, generally speaking, not all I mean, the easy answer is not all of them, obviously. But I think the leaders who are really making a difference do and they understand the importance of them. Just had a conversation earlier today about you know, they&#8217;re their HR leaders out there, and I&#8217;ve been that person in the past myself, who either aren&#8217;t interested in really having a strategic impact in the organization or their leadership is not interested in them doing that. And I think there there are, and will always be organizations where HR has an administrative role or performs the taskmaster function. Is that the most effective role? Probably not. But maybe there are other people in the organization that are stepping up and taking some of the opportunities that would typically be there for a forward thinking HR leader. But I think if you look at the organizations that are really, you know, maybe even excelled over the last couple of years and certainly are looking into the future on how to be the most competitive they can be. In those organizations. I think you will find people leaders who really truly understand the business, understand how people make the business possible. All, and we&#8217;re not just talking about that from, you know, these are good words to say out of my mouth kind of perspective, that they really are bringing that into dollars and cents and numbers, and making again a business case for their recommendations who are thinking creatively trying new things, failing at some of those things, learning from their failures, and then continuing to adjust. The world is different than it was three years ago, and we need to behave differently. And I think some leaders are excelling at that, and some are staying behind,<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>10:32<\/p><p>which happened, you know, six years ago and 15 years ago as well. Right. I think that, to your point earlier, this change does changes the constant experience. So we all go through, you know, and we&#8217;ve had global impacts, but we&#8217;ve also had smaller changes along the way as well. How do how do each our professionals get these skills? So you know, I heard you use the word business case. And that&#8217;s something we talk a lot about on the show as well, you know, in the influence, influencing strategy and, and truly budget, getting budget for these kinds of initiatives, writing a great business case, and influencing in a really positive way is the only way to do it, I would suggest. So if we take the example of a business case, how does how do HR leaders get those kinds of skills,<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure\u00a0<\/strong>11:24<\/p><p>I think it&#8217;s important to understand that learning is a journey. In the past, maybe we attended a seminar once a year, you know, everybody went to the difficult conversations, class, or how financial accounting for non financial managers, you know, and you&#8217;re like, I learned something this year. That&#8217;s not the way that learning works, especially when it needs to be constantly evolving. So I think, you know, if you want to learn how to build a business case, to use that example, there are certainly resources out there, you know, just Google it, there&#8217;s probably a LinkedIn learning course, it&#8217;s tight. I know, there&#8217;s a LinkedIn learning course, this taught by someone, probably more than one, find ways that you can kind of receive information as to how it&#8217;s done, but then also look for or create opportunities where you can do that the way to really implement the learning is to actually learn by doing and again, maybe even making some mistakes along the way. So if you&#8217;re not a leader that&#8217;s in a position right now to be building a business case, because you&#8217;re making some recommendation, volunteer to be a part of a team that&#8217;s doing that work. How can you if you&#8217;re, you know, new to the role or new to the organization, let your boss know that you&#8217;re looking for opportunities to learn how to build that skill, and that you want to be a part of a team that maybe is doing the research or collecting the data or the information to put together for a business case proposal. So find ways to actually do it. If you are the VP of HR, and you&#8217;ve not really made a business case in your career, and I know there are many people out there who haven&#8217;t, they&#8217;ve just gone in and said, This is what we need to do. And the boss either says yes or no. But it&#8217;s it&#8217;s probably likely that you&#8217;ve not gotten some things done that you could have if you really put the numbers together to sell your idea. So think about what is the biggest challenge or opportunity facing your organization from a people perspective? And then how do you quantify that problem and begin to tackle that challenge? You know, don&#8217;t wait for a business case proposal, strategy certification, get started, do it, ask for help, you know, get your your financial people involved, get other people involved to help you build a business case to sell your ideas, I think the best way to learn is by doing.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>13:33<\/p><p>Yeah, I couldn&#8217;t agree more. And I also liked what you talked about building those relationships to help you along the way people who may be better at that particular thing than you and then you can bring your skills and talents to the to the table in a different way. And I think that&#8217;s key to how we&#8217;re building organizations right now and how we&#8217;re going to lead organizations into the future. Is those relationships, is building those relationships stronger. Is that something that you talk about at all?<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>14:00<\/p><p>Absolutely. Again, when I talk about building influence, it really is about relationships. It&#8217;s about people wanting you to be in the room, I use a quote from a friend of mine, Neil Morrison, who wrote on his blog, probably 10 years ago or so. And I saw I read the quote, and I was like, That is amazing. Because I had seen myself in my own career on both sides of that. And the quote is something along the lines of You don&#8217;t get influence. By demanding you know that people listen to your ideas or are controlling the situation, you get influenced by people wanting you to be in the room. And if they are going to want you to be in the room, it&#8217;s because they see you as a person who adds value not because you sit at a certain spot at the table or that you have a title on the organization chart. What you want to be is somebody that gets invited to the room where maybe you typically wouldn&#8217;t be on the agenda to be included but they want to hear your input and ideas. So that means you have to have an understanding of the business. That means you have to be sharing your ideas, your thoughts and opinions and being willing to To, you know, constructively debate ideas and to ask people why they disagree with your ideas to really listen and to take that in. And to also talk to other leaders on your team about you know, one of the the, you know, exercises that I suggest that people do on the understanding the most complex problems that your business has to solve is set an appointment with the functional heads of the departments in your organization, ask for 10 minutes of their time sit down and say, what are three things that are preventing you and your team from hitting the organization&#8217;s goals this year? Or where are you struggling? Number one, you&#8217;ll find out what problems need to be solved in order to help those leaders hit those goals. 100% guess that 100%? I believe those are going to be people issues, it&#8217;s going to be something about I don&#8217;t have the right people, I don&#8217;t have enough people, my people don&#8217;t have the right skill, My people are doing it wrong. Almost any problem in the organization is going to come back to people. So the fact that you&#8217;re there, asking them that question, and then you can go back and work with your team to deliver on that for them, it&#8217;s going to do two things, it&#8217;s going to help them see you as a real strategic business partner who&#8217;s working on solving business problems, and not just coming in and saying, Hey, we&#8217;ve got, you know, new FMLA regulations that you need to abide by, you know, they, they need to see you as somebody who&#8217;s focused on solving business problems, and tackling the opportunities for the business. So asking what is preventing them from being successful will go a long way towards that. Helping them to solve those challenges will just create all kinds of love and respect for them for you. And it builds your influence because they&#8217;ll see you as someone who can help them get what they want, which I think Zig Ziglar has one of my favorite quotes of all time if you want to get. And again, I can&#8217;t remember these quotes, though I&#8217;ve read it&#8217;s like if you want to get anything in life that you want, help other people get what they want. That&#8217;s the way to get what you want is to help other people get what they want. And so that&#8217;s also how you build influence, help other people get what they want. You&#8217;ll get through that.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>16:57<\/p><p>Yes, such wise wisdom, I love it. One of the things that you said there is, is listening, and then actually helping them to solve the thing. actioning what they&#8217;re telling you, I think that is something that we don&#8217;t always close the loop on because life gets in the way or other priorities get in the way. But I think that that&#8217;s worth calling out really loudly is make sure you were actually solving the problems or if there are things that are unsolvable. Now, today, what is the timeline for continuing to have those conversations? And what is the timeline for potentially solving them down the road? Shut integrity, I think is a big piece too. Yeah. Amazing. Now, can we talk about HR professionals and their mental health at the minute? You must you must hang out with a lot of fine HR professionals who are feeling totally burnt out completely overwhelmed and unsure how they could even possibly continue to go on? Is that a thing you&#8217;re experiencing out there?<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>17:58<\/p><p>Oh, yeah, I would imagine that&#8217;s 100%. I&#8217;d love to meet an HR leader who&#8217;s out there going, No, everything&#8217;s fine. I&#8217;m more energized than ever. I think there are people who are energized. But those are probably people like me who are often energized, because there are big problems to solve and challenges to tackle. But yeah, I think that, you know, whether we call it burnout, or people are just tired, or they&#8217;re exhausted or they&#8217;re fatigued. That&#8217;s all burned out, I guess. But it&#8217;s been hard. You know, we&#8217;ve asked for the spotlight, and it&#8217;s been thrust upon us over the last few years. And again, people are more important than ever, and people are 100%, the biggest challenge facing your organization today, whether it&#8217;s getting enough people, the right people, people with the right skills, there is an organization out there today that is like we&#8217;re good. We have all the people that we need. And they all are just tracking along and we are good for like the next five years, because even if you have all the people that you need today, within six months, you&#8217;re going to need to replace some of those people or gross one of those people. So I think it&#8217;s, you know, I worked in an automotive component manufacturing organization for a few years, in early on in my career, and we had clients, both domestic and international. So even when there was a downturn in the US for car production, maybe it was, you know, in Japan or other places where we had clients, so it was up. So we were constantly the seven years that I was in that organization, we doubled in size and employment and revenue, we added on to our factory twice, and we built another factory across the parking lot. So it&#8217;s constant constant growth. And I&#8217;ll never forget sitting in a you know, executive team meeting one day and our purchasing director looked at everyone and she said, I&#8217;m sick of growth. I&#8217;m not excited about this new product coming in. I&#8217;m sick of it. Can we just not grow for a while and I think that&#8217;s where HR leaders are right now. It&#8217;s not necessarily about growth. It&#8217;s just it&#8217;s been one challenge after another and maybe you&#8217;ve you know, successfully hit the ball over the fence every time it&#8217;s been pitched to you but you just want to go sit in the dugout for Well, and that may not be possible right now. So I think we have to recognize that and find ways for for leaders of all kinds, but again, particularly for HR leaders right now, how do we help them navigate through this season where they don&#8217;t get to sit out in any?<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>20:18<\/p><p>And what hopeful words can we offer?<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>20:21<\/p><p>I can give words, I got words for you, you&#8217;ll get through this.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>20:26<\/p><p>Okay, what kind of actions can we offer?<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>20:29<\/p><p>I think the best action is to ask for help. You know, sometimes, we&#8217;re our own worst enemies, because we don&#8217;t ask for help, because we think no one else either will help us or can help us. I know. Again, looking back in my own career, the last corporate HR role that I had was the VP of HR at an organization where again, we were, we were not only growing, but we were making a significant culture change, which meant, you know, anytime you come in, and you try to turn around an organization, there&#8217;s a third of the people who are on the bus and like, let&#8217;s do this, and there&#8217;s a third of the people that are standing at the bus stop going to Nigeria, I want to get on and there&#8217;s a third of the people are like, get me out this bus, you know. So we were just doing a lot of hiring, a lot of culture work. And a lot of things were really happening. And we had some significant openings on our leadership team. And, again, I think it was short sighted. I&#8217;ve learned a lot since then. But my stance at the time was that I wanted to interview and recruit and hire every new hire in the company. And I pretty large organization, I wanted to be the point person on all that I wanted to identify the talent, I wanted to hire them, because I felt like, you know, I understood the culture and what we were looking for. And I wanted to be the person that identified the right, you know, culture and culture fit for our organization. While that was noble, in some regards, and I did a good job at it, I was failing, because there were positions that were sitting open for longer than they should have. And finally, my CEO came in one day, and he closed the door. And he said, Jennifer, I&#8217;ve met with an executive recruiter today at lunch, and I&#8217;d like for you to talk to him about helping us with some of these openings that we have. And I was like, horrified, you know, it&#8217;s like, how dare you. Number one, this is my job, my role, I&#8217;m doing a great job, alright. And he&#8217;s like, You&#8217;re doing a great job. But you could do an even better job and help us more, if you allow us to work with somebody who also is an expert at this, you know, they&#8217;ll spend the time we&#8217;re gonna pay him a lot of money, I&#8217;m happy to do that. They&#8217;re gonna they&#8217;ll spend the time understanding our culture working with you. But I need you also to be doing other things. And I need these positions to get filled. So I didn&#8217;t ask for help there, he came to me forced it upon me. And it was the right decision for the business. And it helped me to see that sometimes, even though I might have good intentions as the leader that I&#8217;m the one to solve this challenge. Number one, that&#8217;s not always the case. Most of the time, probably not the case. You don&#8217;t have to be the one doing the work. But it&#8217;s also the bigger picture is is that I could be more effective for my team and for the organization. If I were offloading some of the areas where I could get help.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>23:01<\/p><p>Just because you can doesn&#8217;t mean you should write that all that is Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think what you see there is important that somebody recognized that it wasn&#8217;t good for the business wasn&#8217;t good for you, and then brought a potential solution, which worked sounds like it worked out really well, to you as well. And I think that&#8217;s really important to call out these relationships that we&#8217;re talking about, is when we&#8217;re recognizing that other people are not behaving in their best way are seeming like they&#8217;re underwater, to, to mention it to have a conversation to not shy away from those conversations, because they&#8217;re uncomfortable or awkward or, you know, could could feel like you were imposing on them in some way, the the result of it would be way better than not saying anything at all,<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>23:44<\/p><p>then it goes back to that kind of business, you know, business case kind of strategy, a better scenario in that situation would have been if I&#8217;d gone to the CEO and said, Look, we have you know, 25 leadership openings in the company. If I&#8217;m going to be the one filling those, it&#8217;s going to take based off of you know, past data for how long it takes to fill a position, we&#8217;ll be looking into 18 months for me to fill all those positions. However, if we hire an executive search partner, we&#8217;re going to pay them X number of dollars, but those positions will be filled, you know, in less time, and it&#8217;s going to ultimately save us money. So to identify the solution to the problem myself would have been ideal. And I think that&#8217;s what a lot of, of HR leaders in particular need to be doing right now. Where do you need help help your leadership see, not only where you can maybe outsource some things or you can share the burden with some of your colleagues or you can, you know, give people on your team or responsibility to help them grow in the future. There may be some cost to that, you know, it was not in our budget for to bring in, you know, a lot of executive search fees. If there are costs to them, then what&#8217;s the justification as to why is the best business decision to do that? Where are you going to save money or avoid costs elsewhere by getting you some help?<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>24:58<\/p><p>And I&#8217;d like to point out also There&#8217;s no, there&#8217;s no shame in asking for that help and building that business case. Because it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s very probable that your value was also not best served doing all of those interviews all the time, you know, maybe the second and third interviews is where your your best value was added, but you didn&#8217;t have to be doing all of those things.<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>25:21<\/p><p>Yeah, nobody told me I had to do it, I took on that challenge myself, I was like, I am the one to save the world. And I wasn&#8217;t.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>25:33<\/p><p>But I think it&#8217;s like, that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s a human experience, I can imagine that there are many HR professionals listening and and resonating with that very, very strongly, because especially if you are a service oriented person, a people pleaser, so to speak, anyway, and you want to do your best work, you want to add your all your value to the organization and people like like that people like us, people, like me, typically take on more than we should. And we don&#8217;t let other people help and support us. And so I think it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s important to remind people that you don&#8217;t have to do all of the things yourself that they&#8217;re perfectly capable people around you that will help you and support you. And that&#8217;s okay. And in fact, it will only help your mental health as you as you continue to thrive in an environment like this.<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>26:22<\/p><p>And I think, you know, we&#8217;re much further along, that was, you know, 15 years or so ago. So culturally, I think we&#8217;re at a different place now, where mental health is talked about a lot more. It&#8217;s not stigmatized as much, although still too much. But asking for help is the right thing to do. You know, at the same time, while I was you know, we were all overworked, it was a very stressful situation. And I was a single parent at the time. And I remember I went to our CFO who was also a female, you know, single parent, and I said, I need to look at getting like full time childcare, you know, I need a nanny or for lack of a better word. And I said, I&#8217;m willing to pay for that. Can you help me identify some resources? Because I can&#8217;t keep going like this, it&#8217;s, you know, not what&#8217;s best for my son. And it&#8217;s not what, what&#8217;s best for me. I think, a lot of times, we just don&#8217;t ask, either, because we think we&#8217;ll be stigmatized, poor, because we don&#8217;t think other people can help us. But when we reach out, when we ask, I think, pull off and be surprised. What we can find that could solve I mean, I can list dozens, we could just have a three day podcast where I could say all the times where I didn&#8217;t ask for help that. Now I either realize I could have or I when I did ask for help. It made it so much better. You know, there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s a lot of examples, I think, in all of our lives, where when you finally do raise your hand and say, Hey, I think I&#8217;m drowning here, can you can you grab my arm, that people will reach out and help you? And so there is no, you know, if I&#8217;ve learned anything in 30 plus years of, you know, both corporate employment, you know, service provider employment, and now self employment, it&#8217;s the fact that I can&#8217;t look back on a situation where I overextended myself and felt like I was the only one that could do it, where that was actually the case now, or that I had benefited in any, you know, turning in my notice when I was moving, and then spending literally 21 hour days for like two weeks trying to prepare everything. So my successor could take over for me. Nobody cared. Nobody, nobody gave me flowers for that. And after I left, I never heard from them again. So would it have been different if I just, you know, just love like everybody else, like, Okay, I finished my last day, good luck. You know, those types of things, I think are often a lot of pressure that we put on ourselves. And I realized there were also people, there&#8217;s a lot of pressure being put on them. And I know it&#8217;s a combination of that. But the piece is where you can recognize that you need help where you can ask for help do that. That&#8217;s, that&#8217;s going to benefit you and the people that you serve in the long run.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>28:59<\/p><p>And I think the potential the person you&#8217;re asking to help from as well, because it&#8217;s it&#8217;s there&#8217;s an opportunity where they maybe are thinking, Well, I didn&#8217;t want to offer my help, or or I really need help and maybe we can help each other. And so I think there&#8217;s so much value in sharing out loud I you know, I always say fears are louder in the dark. And when we go out there, we&#8217;ll find some some people who are in the same boat as we are and feeling the exact same way.<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>29:27<\/p><p>And it actually goes back to what we were talking about earlier about building influence by sharing more of who you are and allowing people to connect with you in a real and human way. I think that builds influence as well.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>29:37<\/p><p>Absolutely. And trust and authenticity and integrity and all of that all of those things. Absolutely. We are coming to the end of our time together. I can&#8217;t even believe it. Is there a final piece of parting wisdom that you would like to share with all of the listeners.<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure <\/strong>29:54<\/p><p>Now is your time if you&#8217;re a people leader, or you know you don&#8217;t even have to be an HR talent equity. Shouldn&#8217;t you have people that work for you on your team now is the time work gets done through people, people are going to be the key to organizational success, they certainly have always been. But in the future where there aren&#8217;t enough people or people with skills that are needed to do the work that is needed in your organization, it is going to be the magical thinking of people, leaders that solve those problems and challenges that help their organizations not only stay at, stay afloat, but thrive. So if you are a people leader, you are in the best position in history, to make an impact in your organization and in the lives of the people that you lead and serve. So get excited about that, you know, people will come to you and say I have have an opportunity for you and we all cringe. But the real opportunity here is that you can make a difference. It won&#8217;t necessarily be easy, but you are in the best position possible to have an impact in your organization.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>30:52<\/p><p>That feels so hopeful. I tell you, you know, we didn&#8217;t have any hopeful words earlier. But we the future is bright for people, leaders for HR professionals. Jennifer, it has been such a pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you for sharing all of your thought leadership, your insights, your crystal ball reading. I very much looking forward to attending your talk at the conference and seeing you in New Orleans in June. So thank you again for your generosity of your time.<\/p><p><strong>Jennifer McClure\u00a0 <\/strong>31:20<\/p><p>All right. Thanks for having me here with you today.<\/p><p><strong>Lindsay Recknell\u00a0 <\/strong>31:22 Thanks for joining me for another awesome episode of the mental health for leaders podcast. To make sure you don&#8217;t miss any future episodes, please go to https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com and subscribe to have these episodes delivered right to your inbox each week. You&#8217;ll also find all the show notes, links and resources that my guest mentioned on the show and the link to the Guide to Influence and Impact at Work freebie I mentioned at the beginning of this episode.\u00a0 You&#8217;re listening to this podcast because you know our people need us more than ever. But being a people leader and an HR professional is especially hard right now. If the thought of figuring out how to best support your people and yourself feels overwhelming and impossibly hard. Let&#8217;s talk. I don&#8217;t promise I can make it easy, but I can make it simple. So let&#8217;s do that together. Go to https:\/\/mentalhealthforleaders.com and download the Guide to Influence and Impact at Work now. Until next time, take good care. And as always, call me if you need me.<\/p><\/div><p>Transcribed by https:\/\/otter.ai<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-203c128 elementor-shape-circle elementor-grid-0 e-grid-align-center elementor-widget elementor-widget-global elementor-global-222 elementor-widget-social-icons\" data-id=\"203c128\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"social-icons.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<style>\/*! elementor - v3.21.0 - 18-04-2024 *\/\n.elementor-widget-social-icons.elementor-grid-0 .elementor-widget-container,.elementor-widget-social-icons.elementor-grid-mobile-0 .elementor-widget-container,.elementor-widget-social-icons.elementor-grid-tablet-0 .elementor-widget-container{line-height:1;font-size:0}.elementor-widget-social-icons:not(.elementor-grid-0):not(.elementor-grid-tablet-0):not(.elementor-grid-mobile-0) .elementor-grid{display:inline-grid}.elementor-widget-social-icons 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