People leaders create the atmosphere for their teams, both consciously and subconsciously. That’s why it’s so important that leaders develop the skills necessary to improve and support workplace relationships.
Do you have the skills necessary to build a resilient team?
Charmaine Hammond joins me today to talk about the importance of leaders developing these skills and holding themselves accountable. It may not always be easy, and you definitely won’t always get it right, so giving yourself room to learn and grow will be transformational for both you and your team. And if you don’t know where to begin or what skills to even work on, Charmaine covers that as well so you can get started right away.
Listen on your favourite podcast player
About Charmaine Hammond:
Charmaine Hammond, CSP (Certified Speaking Professional) is a highly sought-after business keynote and workshop speaker, entrepreneur, author, and educator who teaches and advocates the importance of collaboration, mental health, and healthy relationships. She has helped clients in many industries build resilient and engaged workplaces, develop high trust/high accountability relationships, and solve workplace issues and conflict that gets in the way of success and profitability.
She is also the Executive Producer of the Back Home Again movie. Responsible for heading up the collaborations, partnerships, and sponsorship for the project, she is passionate about this film because Fort McMurray was her home for 15 years. She didn’t live there at the time of the fires however returned on contacts with the social profit organizations and school boards to work with the community on the recovery and resilience initiatives.
Mentioned In This Episode:
- The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni
- Back Home Again
- Charmaine’s Website
- Follow Mental Health in Minutes on Facebook and LinkedIn
- Join our monthly digital subscription
Lindsay Recknell 0:07
Welcome to Mental Health In Minute, where we open the door to conversations about workplace mental health, and help leaders and HR professionals create safe and innovative organizations for our employees and our companies thrive. I’m your host, Lindsay Recknell, the psychological health and safety advisor, a workplace mental health consultant, speaker, a facilitator and an expert in hope.
Lindsay Recknell 0:28
Each episode of this show has three objectives, to discuss the future of mental health in the workplace. To identify the best, most successful strategies for opening the door to mental health conversations at work, and to share the top ways we can engage our leadership in the workplace mental health conversation, and have them endorse and pay for a positive cultural shift within our organization.
Lindsay Recknell 0:48
If you’re listening to this podcast, you know that our people need us more than ever, but most of our organizations have a long way to go until supporting employee wellness is embedded in the culture of our workplace. This episode is a resource you can use to start and continue workplace mental health conversations and my guests will share their experiences and what’s worked for them.
Lindsay Recknell 1:07
Today’s guest is Charmaine Hammond. Charmaine is a certified speaking professional, a highly sought after business, keynote and workshop speaker and entrepreneur and author and an educator, but teachers and advocates the importance of collaboration, mental health and healthy relationships. She has helped clients in many industries, build resilient and engage workplaces, develop high trust high accountability relationships, and solve workplace issues and conflict that get in the way of success and profitability.
Lindsay Recknell 1:35
She is also the executive producer of the Back Home Again movie. Almost since the beginning of this project. She is responsible for heading up the collaborations, partnerships and sponsorship for the project. She is passionate about this film because Fort McMurray was her home for 15 years. I am excited to get going. So let’s dig in.
Lindsay Recknell 1:55
Hello, Charmaine, welcome to the show.
Charmaine Hammond 1:58
Thank you. I’m really excited for this conversation.
Lindsay Recknell 2:01
Me too. I’ve been anticipating it for quite some time. It’s very nice. I would love so I introduced you in the introduction. But I would love to hear from you who you are and what you do.
Charmaine Hammond 2:12
Sure, well, I’ve worked in the area of mental health and on the sidelines of mental health for a long time, with my first career being in corrections. Working in resilience, mental health was a big part of the work that I did as a as a correctional officer. And then when I was working as a mediator, I had gone back to school and got trained as a mediator. And what I started to see was really fascinating for me as I was doing family mediation, as well as community workplace mediation, and I saw a missing piece very, very quickly.
Charmaine Hammond 2:44
And the missing piece was that people would often resolve their disputes, they’ve come to conclusions together about how to resolve an issue. But it didn’t necessarily nurture the relationship or rebuild resilience. And so very early on in my mediation practice, I started building in a process to help people restore their resilience or build their resilience and build trust amongst each other. Because when people will go back in the workplace, the conflict was dealt with, but nothing else had changed. So their colleagues were still treating them as if they had this conflict going on. And their stress level didn’t necessarily decrease.
Charmaine Hammond 3:23
And so I got really fascinated about resilience then and then survived a near death sailboat accident and decided, Okay, I really need to start practicing what I talked about in resilience, because I didn’t necessarily rebound from that experience, as well as I would have liked it to be a long time to get on a sailboat again. And I guess the other piece is that now I have this wonderful opportunity working on a movie back home again, which is a conversation starter for mental health.
Charmaine Hammond 3:53
And, you know, I know you and I have talked offline about how important it is for workplaces to engage employees and and allow these conversations to happen. And I’m really excited to be working in this world right now. Because I think the mental health issues have really surfaced increased with COVID. And living in navigating through a pandemic.
Lindsay Recknell 4:16
Yeah, nothing like a global pandemic to help us spread our message.
Charmaine Hammond 4:22
You know, it’s interesting, I was talking to one of our mutual colleagues at Canadian Mental Health Association, and he said that right now, we all have mental health challenges. As you know, we’re all being impacted in different ways, no surprise to you in the work that you do. And I think now is a great time for organizations and workplaces to actually be providing ways for employees to talk about mental health and resilience
Lindsay Recknell 4:47
well, and it’s definitely something that’s near and dear to my heart. You know, the work that I do in mental health in minutes is to open the door to these kinds of conversations and make mental health at work as normalized as any other conversation and I loved You mentioned your movie, because as a conversation starter because so often at work, that’s the problem, right? We know we want to talk, we know how good it is when we get that stuff out loud.
Lindsay Recknell 5:13
But what do we actually say, and opportunities, like your film, to relate to, to what’s going on and maybe take a part of the film and relate it to what’s going on in my own life or your own life, that just opens that door a little bit and makes it a little bit easier. So I love tools like that.
Lindsay Recknell 5:32
Can you tell us a little bit about your movie? Because listeners, Charmaine is also going to come on the hope podcast very soon to talk in more detail about that film. But just if you could share with us a little bit about how it’s a door opener to conversations about mental health, that’d be awesome.
Charmaine Hammond 5:49
Sure. Well, the screenwriter director Michael Mann koski is a born and raised Fort McMurray so he actually experienced the Fort McMurray though the horse river wildfires that were in 2016. He went through the disaster. And he’s a screenwriter and a producer and he was contracted by Red Cross to actually video and and record an interview a number of people during the return back to the community as well as during the recovery in the and the rebuilding process.
Charmaine Hammond 6:17
And he when I’ve talked to Michael, he talks about, while it was so difficult to hear these stories, there was a healing component that happened for him. And so the movie is an animated story, an animated movie about the Fort McMurray with buffalo wildfires. But it’s told through the voices of animals who live in the forests. So a very different perspective.
Charmaine Hammond 6:40
We’ve got an incredible cast who all donated their time, including Michael J. Fox, Catherine O’Hara, Eugene Levy, tan to Cardinal Martin Short, Jeremy Renner, Lauren Cardinal, and the list goes on. And what’s beautiful about this incredible cast that we have is, you know, they’ve got, they’ve supported this project, they come on board with this project to help us inspire those conversations about mental health.
Charmaine Hammond 7:07
So it’s our goal. It’s my close goal that people will watch this 30 minute movie, and then it gives them opportunity to engage in conversation, because you’re absolutely right, Lindsay, one of the toughest things for people is hear it all the time in my work. I’m going to say that you probably do too, is people say, but I just don’t know what to say. I don’t know how to get the conversation started.
Lindsay Recknell 7:29
Yes, exactly. Because sometimes if you say, I feel sad today, that feels awkward.
Charmaine Hammond 7:36
Lindsay Recknell 7:38
It’s so important.
Charmaine Hammond 7:40
Yeah, well, and then people, you know, one of the dynamics I have seen from consulting and speaking in workplaces for many years is that when we don’t know how to comfortably and safely start conversations about mental health, and about how we feel, what tends to happen for a lot of people is they start to look at what am i frustrated about what’s driving me, you know, around the bend, what is irritating me, and they talk about that, instead of talking about what’s really going on for them.
Charmaine Hammond 8:09
So while they’re engaging in conversation, they might not be talking about the conversation that matters most in the moment. And I know, I’ve always said to people, you don’t know what to say, it’s okay to say, I don’t know what to say, I just feel like we need to have a conversation here.
Lindsay Recknell 8:25
Yeah. Oh, I love it. Oh, that’s so like, that feels so simple. And it feels so like a real, real, tactical way to open the door to conversation. And that’s what we’re all about here. So I really appreciate that. That suggestion, for sure.
Lindsay Recknell 8:39
Um, you mentioned in your, in your introduction, talking about creating that lasting change for people. So not just the reaction to the situation to the mediated situation, but actually helping them to build that resilience so that maybe they don’t get into that situation again, or they can move, move on from it, move through it. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? And how you how you help people to do that?
Charmaine Hammond 9:09
Well, I’m in the and now I get to train organizations on how to do this in my my 10 plus years as a corporate mediator really helped prepare me I found that while I was mediating, I was also training and speaking at the same time. And so one of the things that we would always look at as people came to the, towards the ending of a mediation process, and we’re getting close to figuring out an agreement, one of the last things we would do is how do we set this agreement up for success?
Charmaine Hammond 9:38
How do we ensure that all of you who are just in this conflict resolution process together feel supported and feel like if another issue pops up, because sometimes things go sideways? If another issue pops up? What can happen so that you don’t have to end up coming back here? And so we really look at what needs to happen in the change process. I’ll give you an example.
Charmaine Hammond 10:03
I remember working with a small team, I believe it was five people. And they all agreed at the end, one of them was a leader, they all agreed at the end that they wanted to share the outcome, not the conversations, but just their agreement with the HR director, who was the person who brought the team to me. And what was really interesting is they engaged in the conversation, they had worked so hard to figure out a solution that they actually I kind of backed out, I was not needed in the conversation anymore. But they created an agreement around how they would ensure their workplace relationships were enhanced, improved or supported. And that’s what they actually brought back to the HR director.
Charmaine Hammond 10:03
And you know, she was completely in awe of these people who, when they came into the process, they weren’t even talking almost could not be in the same room together. And then at the end here, they are almost jumping all over each other to share the results of their agreement. But what they focused on a lot was, how do we make sure our trust stays there? How do we make sure that we all feel supported by one another? And there are uncomfortable conversations to have, but it was like night and day, the difference between the small team, and they did that work themselves? I just provided the kind of environment for them to have the conversation
Lindsay Recknell 11:23
that psychologically safe environment, obviously. Yes, yes. Um, so if there’s so lots of leaders listen to this show. And if there’s a leader listening, and they’re thinking, Oh, I have a team that can barely be in the same room together, and I want to create a psychologically safe space for them without giving away of course, too much of your work. Is there, like, is there somewhere they can start? Yeah, that’s such a great question.
Charmaine Hammond 11:50
I believe that a lot of leaders wrestle with this. And I think this is something that a lot of leaders actually lose sleep over, they feel a lot of pressure to create that environment. And I do know, when you create the environment, issues will start to take care of themselves, because people feel less of a need to go to their leader, they feel supported to just figure it out on their own.
Charmaine Hammond 12:11
So one of them though, is my I really believe in modeling when leaders can model what healthy, respectful, safe communication looks like, it changes the dynamics in the team, it’s almost like that domino effect that somebody starts it. And then the rest of them sort of follow this lead.
Charmaine Hammond 12:30
The other thing, so in addition to modeling the skills that you want people to use, I think it’s also really important to start conversations with people. So that what you’re doing as a leader is making it Okay, to have what I call the courageous dialogue, which is the conversation that matters most, and is mostly avoided.
Charmaine Hammond 12:49
So when, when leaders are modeling courageous dialogue, and that might look like this, you might be at a staff meeting one day, and somebody says something, and everybody sort of, does it all, you know, this, that’s a great opportunity for a leader to actually model what the safe environment looks like, by just checking that out. Oh, I noticed that when that individual said something, everybody sort of the feeling of the room kind of changed. And everyone got quiet, helped me understand that, and just presence in it with no judgment, you know, no retribution, just presence in it.
Charmaine Hammond 13:26
And what I find is that when the team sees that happening, it really makes it okay for them to do the same. And it encourages people to hold themselves and one another accountable.
Lindsay Recknell 13:39
That is brilliant. I can picture moments in my head where we’re intentionally in a conversation that is meant to address an issue, something that’s come up, and people’s behavior changes in a moment like that. Yet, even though we’re in a meeting that’s meant to be open and honest dialogue. Nobody addresses that behavior change.
Charmaine Hammond 14:03
Lindsay Recknell 14:03
very. I love the intention behind that.
Charmaine Hammond 14:06
Yeah. Yeah. And how you frame it is so important, because I had a leader share something with me in a training that I’ve never forgotten. This is probably 20 years ago. And the leader, very strong leader, like, really professional, so skilled, but anytime there was opposition, conflict, even the sense that conflict might happen. For example, if you had to share bad news or share information that he felt the team would not like, he would really tight up sort of tense up, and you could see that it was all over his face. It was in his demeanor. He talked really fast. He was sort of dismissive to people not intentionally.
Charmaine Hammond 14:48
And so I said to him, if you can just work on that piece, I think some of the other pieces will fall into place. And so one of the tips I gave him, he thought this was a silly tip. I’ll be honest But I said to him, I want you to just grab a piece of paper and a sharpie marker. And in point form, just write down the key points of what you need to share with the team. And he said, Okay, so he got those three pages of Bill and I said, I want you to print big, so that you can read it not print tiny. And then I said, go into a room with a mirror. And then I want you to practice saying this, at least 15 times.
Charmaine Hammond 15:25
And he said, Oh, I can’t do that. And I said, then that means every time you do this in real life, it’s like your role play. Like, you don’t have a chance to correct it, because you’re in the live audience. So why not be uncomfortable on your own. And this will build confidence. So he did, he did it 20 times. And I asked him to pay attention to how he looked in the mirror, and to pay attention to when his demeanor changed, when his face might have got tight. Or when he stopped looking in the mirror, he kind of looked around. And he was able to see exactly where the trigger points were for him, where he got nervous or anxious, or, in one case, frustrated. And then he just kept practicing and practicing 20 times.
Charmaine Hammond 16:07
And he said, when he showed up in real life, it was he didn’t use were Piece of cake. But he was kind of implying that the stress and anxiety that had been there previously, had really dissipated, but he felt more confident. And he said his speech was clearer. The reaction he was anticipating from his employees did not happen. And I said, I wonder if that could be because of how you showed up
Lindsay Recknell 16:31
It gives me shivers even think about that. I mean, I, I know I do a lot about the neural pathways in our brain and why practice is the thing, right? Because you’re laying down those new pathways of, of being habitual, you know, your brain is designed to be efficient. And so if you can, if you can put it in a place in the future and get it comfortable with that place, once it gets there. It’s like, Hey, this is all news. I’ve been here, I can totally do this. And I don’t have to get my parents sympathetic nervous system out of control, because I’m stressed and anxious. Because I’ve been here I can have a list.
Charmaine Hammond 17:07
Yes, Brilliant, such a good point that you mentioned, you just brought me back to an early time. And when I was the leader in the correctional system, and I remember I had to go and talk to my team, which is about 10 people about a change in government policy. And I knew that this would not be well received by the team, I lost sleep over it for days, I delayed doing it. I tried to kind of go around the issue that didn’t work and meanwhile, what’s happening is my mental health is being impacted. My resilience was being impacted when I finally mustered my courage to have this conversation. And by now I’d had two weeks to make this much worse than it really was in my own head.
Charmaine Hammond 17:49
I was so nervous that the team felt almost agitated, there was a strange feeling in the room. And they and later when I talked to them, they said they felt like there was something else I wasn’t telling them there. And so the conversation that happened after was life changing for me, because what I learned from my employees was that, because I showed up feeling very apprehensive and nervous, I just created that for everyone.
Charmaine Hammond 18:17
All of them felt apprehensive and nervous, and they had no idea why. And they left the meeting feeling that way, which was certainly not what I wanted. So I was 25 years old, then literally more than half a lifetime ago. And on that day, I vowed that I need to develop new skills, because I didn’t like the feeling as a new leader of you know, 10 people leaving a meeting, not feeling comfortable and feeling awkward around me.
Charmaine Hammond 18:46
So I did a redo, I have to be honest with you, I did a redo. I called them back a few days later, asked permission, a mentor of mine said you need to do a redo. And I What is that? And I said I need to I need to redo the conversation from a few days ago. And I need your patience with me. Well, I try this again. And I’m not I apologize for leaving them with questions and uncertainty. So I did it again. And at the end of the conversation, one of the stuff flew off her chair ran around the room and hugged me and said, That was so good for all of us. And I really learned from the team that you know, that was an example of me being vulnerable, very vulnerable. And they created the space for me to get through it was so powerful, the sudden powerful. I never want to have that feeling again though. So nervous.
Lindsay Recknell 19:37
it’s interesting because you know, we talked about psychological safety and it feels like before that, yeah, you had created a psychologically safe space for them.
Charmaine Hammond 19:46
Lindsay Recknell 19:46
and when you stood up there, and we’re super nervous, but weren’t talking to them about why you were nervous, all they’re picking up on you from you is your nervousness of what you might not be saying even though you are truly saying all the things that you want to say Say, yeah, but all of a sudden you’re inadvertently creating an psychologically unsafe space. Because now they’re not they don’t trust the words coming out of your mouth, because they’re your behavior is not aligning to what you’re saying.
Charmaine Hammond 20:14
Lindsay Recknell 20:15
And which is super fascinating to me, and especially how you came back and corrected that. And I think that’s the lesson in all of this is, even if you don’t do it right the first time, you can have a redo, you can have a mulligan and come back an do it again. Right?
Charmaine Hammond 20:33
Lindsay Recknell 20:33
you probably, in fact, double down on your psychological safety. Right? You probably if you felt like you went one step back, you probably went two steps forward with that redo. Yeah, that’s super, super powerful.
Charmaine Hammond 20:46
Well, I love what you’re saying. And because it was transformational for me, it certainly was for the team. And if we fast forward years later, I remember facilitating a team building process with a government organization. And I was teaching the talking to the leader about needing to do a redo because he had, he was becoming frustrated in the process. And it showed, and it would add, and he said some things that while the content was useful, the delivery not helpful. And so the team kind of shut down.
Charmaine Hammond 21:18
And it was phenomenal. This is a person who normally would never admit if he was wrong, or made a mistake, he had really high expectations around. I call it perfectionism. And he came back in the room and he apologized. And he said, I’m going to do, you know, a do over and he so he came out at a second time, reframed what he wanted to say.
Charmaine Hammond 21:41
And I’ll never forget what happened next, one of the staff who was probably his biggest adversary in the group, he struggled with her immensely, there was just such a personality clash. She just looked at him. And she said, Thank you. She said, You’ve given us the biggest gift, and he was kind of confused. And then she said, You taught us that perfection is not required. And she said, we didn’t know that we could, you know, offer you help, we thought you were going to go at all the problems alone, we felt disengaged, we didn’t feel included. And you just let us know that it’s okay to ask for help. And it’s okay to offer help in the team. And that was like an unexpected outcome for him as well as me as an outsider to the team.
Lindsay Recknell 22:27
Amazing, amazing. You never know what impact all word is going to have on somebody, I had a conversation earlier today about, you know, we say talk out loud, share your stories, admit your mistakes, do your do overs. Because you never know what you’re saying what you say, and how it’s going to resonate with someone, even if they may have heard that message already. It, they just may be ready to hear it, they just might be in a different place to receive it, whatever that is, you just never know how impactful Your words are going to be. That are true. Very cool.
Lindsay Recknell 23:02
Um, can we talk about dissension a little bit. So, you know, creating psychologically safe spaces. I believe there needs to be dissension. psychological safety does not equal, you know, passive, it does not equal, everybody has to agree just for the sake of agreeing. In fact, it encourages people to bring their different opinions and to if they don’t agree to respectfully say I don’t agree. And here’s a couple reasons why can we talk about that? And can we talk about how dissension works in your work?
Charmaine Hammond 23:35
Yeah, I love that you’ve raised that because I think that is a misunderstanding for a lot of people that they think psychologically safe. workplaces are one where we don’t talk about the skeletons in the closet, we sort of make, like, it’s everything is good here. And I remember reading, I don’t know if you’ve ever read Thomas Lynch, Patrick lencioni, his book, and he talks about superficial harmony. And I remember thinking, ah, you know, that’s what we want to avoid in a in a workplace is that feeling of superficial harmony, where everything looks like it’s okay, but nobody’s talking about what really needs to be talked about. And we want to have disagreement in a team. In fact, I get worried.
Charmaine Hammond 24:16
When people say, Oh, we really want to have zero conflict. I remember working with a company years and years ago, they wanted to create a zero conflict policy. Ah, no, no, don’t do that. Because you basically just that conflict is not allowed here. What they really wanted was, they wanted to make sure that there was no tolerance for just respectfully managed conflict, and that’s a totally different statement. So when we talk about dissension and having disagreement, I think disagreement is really healthy for teams.
Charmaine Hammond 24:47
And when you create what you’ve described as that psychologically safe environment where people can have that banter back and forth, where they can disagree, because they’re being open to opinion That are not the same as theirs. They’re asking questions, they’re coming from a place of curiosity. They’re also okay that they don’t have to agree on everything. You know, there’s a statement, I always say, when I’m teaching conflict resolution that is proving somebody wrong doesn’t make you right.
Charmaine Hammond 25:17
People spend so much time trying to prove somebody wrong to make themselves right. And in a psychologically safe environment, we can have those conversations and it doesn’t come down to right or wrong. It comes down to sharing your perspective and making decisions that are best for the team, the project the company goals.
Lindsay Recknell 25:36
Yes, yes, you’re speaking my language lady. Good. Amazing. This has been like one of the best conversations I’ve had, and I get to have a lot of really great conversation. So I really appreciate you spending your time with me today. your expertise, just your your compassion, and the in the real practical way you come out these these topics, I really feel like leaders can take some of these things away that you’ve talked about today and try them, they feel simple enough to just give it a shot, you know, exactly.
Lindsay Recknell 26:08
Especially the do over I am absolutely going to continue using that language because especially if you sort of stated up front, right, and that’s something awkward for leaders too is if to admit it, to admit a mistake is one thing, but to kind of set the stage to admit a mistake. Yeah, is something else layered on top of that. But if I can come into a meeting and say, Hey, guys, I just need to redo because I did that really badly. So if you could just have a little patience with me. Let’s start over. Again, that feels like a conversation starter, a way to open the door to those kinds of conversations. So
Charmaine Hammond 26:44
Lindsay Recknell 26:45
Awesome. Thank you so so much.
Lindsay Recknell 26:47
Lindsay Recknell 26:48
It has been a real pleasure. I look forward to having you on the hope motivates action podcast again very soon. And to keep this conversation going, you’re doing really incredible work. Can you tell people how they can find you and how they can get a hold of you to do more of this?
Charmaine Hammond 27:03
Certainly on LinkedIn. I’m very active on LinkedIn or my website Charmainehammond.com.
Lindsay Recknell 27:08
Amazing. We will put all the links to all the places in the show notes of this episode as well. So listeners you can absolutely check that out. And Charmaine I will be in touch with you again very soon.
Charmaine Hammond 27:19
Lindsay Recknell 27:20
Lindsay Recknell 27:22
Thank you for listening to another episode of Mental Health In Minutes, I left this conversation with Charmaine feeling so good, she just has such a warm and compassionate approach to tackling what can be super difficult conversations. I especially loved the idea of the do over as a simple tactic you can use with your team if you’d like to change how you handle this situation, and come at it from a different point of view. Also, the part about dissension was super fascinating. I believe that respectful disagreement creates real opportunity for creativity, for seeing things from different perspectives and conversation, coming from a place of curiosity all creates more psychologically safe workplaces for us to thrive.
Lindsay Recknell 27:58
If you love this episode, please consider subscribing and leaving a review on your favorite podcast player. You can find this everywhere at mental health in minutes, as well as on the web at www.languageofmentalhealth.com. The thing we do best at mental health in minutes is open the door to conversations about mental health at work. And episodes like this give us real things we can try to truly make a difference. I know you’re making a difference in your workplace, or you’d really like to be or you wouldn’t be listening to podcast episodes like these ones.
Lindsay Recknell 28:25
I’d love to help accelerate your impact at work, help you really move the needle on mental health maturity in your workplace, and get people to a place where they’re feeling less stressed, more fulfilled and able to integrate work in life in a way that works for them and your organization. Being a people leader is especially hard right now, you might feel like you’re managing both up the corporate ladder and down. And if the thought of figuring out how to best support your people and yourself feels overwhelming and impossibly hard, let’s talk.
Lindsay Recknell 28:53
Let me help you by doing the heavy lifting with resources and materials, along with training and facilitation. And you can get back to doing what you do best engaging with and supporting your people. I have many ways to support you from full service hands on to guidance and support from afar. So let’s chat about what works for you and your people. As always, I’m here if you need me
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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